Fogging 5.0L EFI

[Juno]

Hi guys, for those out there in the Northern regions (I am in Canada) how do you go about fogging your EFI engine.

I have read to NOT spray the fogging oil (I have only had carb engines before so I am used to this procedure).

A merc mechanic at a near by marina told me that they do NOT fog EFI engines....

I also read to make up the EFI mix and add it to the Fuel Water separator filter, disconnect the fuel line from the tank and run the engine until it dies. (seems easy enough)

However then I read to NOT run the EFI dry, but to attach a separate fuel tank with the EFI mix to the motor and run it for 5 mins at 1300rpm.

What do you think the best way to perform the fogging on these engines is?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bt Doctur]

I find the best way is with the remote tank mix, it will run longer to coat and protect everything inside
including the injectors.
moisture in the fuel and fuel injectors dont mix.

 

[scoflaw]

Seeing that gas diluted 2 stroke oil is far from a fogging oil, I skip it, with no issues

 

[Bt Doctur]

gas, a can of fogging oil, sta-bil, marvel mystery oil.

 

[Westie]

Seeing that gas diluted 2 stroke oil is far from a fogging oil, I skip it, with no issues

We all know that you don't follow what the factory service manual says. You can do what you want with your engine but please don't provide bad information to others.

 

[Strecker25]

Hi guys, for those out there in the Northern regions (I am in Canada) how do you go about fogging your EFI engine.

I have read to NOT spray the fogging oil (I have only had carb engines before so I am used to this procedure).

A merc mechanic at a near by marina told me that they do NOT fog EFI engines....

I also read to make up the EFI mix and add it to the Fuel Water separator filter, disconnect the fuel line from the tank and run the engine until it dies. (seems easy enough)

However then I read to NOT run the EFI dry, but to attach a separate fuel tank with the EFI mix to the motor and run it for 5 mins at 1300rpm.

What do you think the best way to perform the fogging on these engines is?

Thanks in advance.

I'm following advice from Lazy Daze on our '98 5.7's using the fuel filter but do not plan on disconnecting the source fuel line. We do not have shutoff's, and I don't want to introduce the risk of a leak so i'm just going to put the cocktail in the filter and run them for 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by Lazy Daze
The whole idea is that you don't want the "real" fogging oil (the spray stuff) going through the injectors. Since you have throttle body injectors that just sit on top of the TB, you can easily squirt past them. There's also the issue that MPI's have more sensors that can be finicky to the fogging oil. EFI's do, too, but for whatever reason they don't seem to be as sensitive. BUT, if you wanted to play it on the safe side, then just use the fuel filter. You've got to change it anyways. I suppose a case could be made both ways for using the old filter or the new filter. For me, I figure that the cocktail mix that you're putting in there is not a bad thing and it's not like the 2-cycle is going to clog anything up. So, me, I put the cocktail mix into the new filter. Run the engine for exactly 5 minutes at between 1,200-1,300 RPM's and then shut if off. Done. Don't expect to see much smoke, though -- certainly not as much as what you might remember when fogging an old outboard. For what it's worth, I 'fog' EFI's by using the fuel filter method.

 

[scoflaw]

We all know that you don't follow what the factory service manual says. You can do what you want with your engine but please don't provide bad information to others.

Nothing bad about it, a lot of people don't, choice of preference. Read his original post, his merc tech at his marina doesn't do it as well.

Remember this is a GM motor that's been around a long time, no different than an old car in your garage.

Think mercs lawyers have anything to do with how their manual is written.

Common sense my friend, if the outside of your motor isn't getting rusty, well neither is the inside

If 2 stroke oil, like the manual suggests, was the hot ticket, why do 2 stroke outboard owners bother to fog their engines? Think outside the box, instead of doing what your told.

 

[Ididntdoit]

Common sense my friend, if the outside of your motor isn't getting rusty, well neither is the inside
[/QUOTE]

I dont know about you, but the outside of my motor is painted and the cylinders are a machined bare surface - Condensation does form inside the exhaust and cylinders and when it is not run for months at a time (unlike most cars, even "hobby" cars) rust can form - thereby destroying ring seal

 

[Juno]

I'm following advice from Lazy Daze on our '98 5.7's using the fuel filter but do not plan on disconnecting the source fuel line. We do not have shutoff's, and I don't want to introduce the risk of a leak so i'm just going to put the cocktail in the filter and run them for 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by Lazy Daze
The whole idea is that you don't want the "real" fogging oil (the spray stuff) going through the injectors. Since you have throttle body injectors that just sit on top of the TB, you can easily squirt past them. There's also the issue that MPI's have more sensors that can be finicky to the fogging oil. EFI's do, too, but for whatever reason they don't seem to be as sensitive. BUT, if you wanted to play it on the safe side, then just use the fuel filter. You've got to change it anyways. I suppose a case could be made both ways for using the old filter or the new filter. For me, I figure that the cocktail mix that you're putting in there is not a bad thing and it's not like the 2-cycle is going to clog anything up. So, me, I put the cocktail mix into the new filter. Run the engine for exactly 5 minutes at between 1,200-1,300 RPM's and then shut if off. Done. Don't expect to see much smoke, though -- certainly not as much as what you might remember when fogging an old outboard. For what it's worth, I 'fog' EFI's by using the fuel filter method.

Thanks Streker25, I think I will do it this way as well. I was concerned with removing the fuel lines, then having to plug them etc. etc.

I like this advice that you provided and to me it makes sense and seems easy. I am going to use the old filter with the mix of oil and fuel and then put on the new filter for storage.

Again I appreciate your comments!

 

[scoflaw]

Common sense my friend, if the outside of your motor isn't getting rusty, well neither is the inside

I dont know about you, but the outside of my motor is painted and the cylinders are a machined bare surface - Condensation does form inside the exhaust and cylinders and when it is not run for months at a time (unlike most cars, even "hobby" cars) rust can form - thereby destroying ring seal[/QUOTE]

Really? I don't see you posting on any tech threads. But surely you know what your talking about
Look at the bare steel where your belt rides. Does it get rusty in 6 months?

I'm sure you know how good 2 stroke oil can protect your cylinder walls. Right?

 

[scoflaw]

Amen.

Scoflaw, you might remember a little thing called condensation, when water vapor is trapped in areas that don't ventilate well. Do some research about it, it's the common sense thing to do.

Oh, by the way, make sure when you go to sell your boat someday, you tell them how you didn't bother to fog the engines for winter because you know better than Mercruiser on how to maintain it. (despite the fact engine fogging has been done long before you and I were born.)

OK, with that being said, tell me why 2 stroke owners bother to fog their engines? Nice simple question.

 

[bbwhitejr]

Thanks Streker25, I think I will do it this way as well. I was concerned with removing the fuel lines, then having to plug them etc. etc.

I like this advice that you provided and to me it makes sense and seems easy. I am going to use the old filter with the mix of oil and fuel and then put on the new filter for storage.

Again I appreciate your comments!

Followed this advice last year and worked perfect-2 oz of 2 cycle oil, 2 oz of marine stabil, finish filling filter canister with gas and run.

Bennett

 

[scoflaw]

You do realize the mixture of 2 stroke being used is much more potent than the 40:1 or 60:1 that 2 stroke engines use? Yes? The mixture is 2 quarts of two stroke oil in 5 gallons of gas. A typical two stroke engine runs on a splash of oil comparatively.

So if that's the case why don't 2 stroke owners double down on their mix instead of fogging? It's because 2 stroke oil isn't a suitable fogging oil. Too freakin thin... You getting it now???

Another thing the merc manual doesn't specify, is how long their suggestion of the fogging procedure is good for. Common sense would dictate that more than a 1 year layup would require REAL fogging oil to be shot directly into the cylinders.

Dude get a grip on your act, don't talk to me like I'm new to this stuff

 

[Lazy Daze]

OK, with that being said, tell me why 2 stroke owners bother to fog their engines? Nice simple question.

You do realize the mixture of 2 stroke being used is much more potent than the 40:1 or 60:1 that 2 stroke engines use? Yes? The mixture is 2 quarts of two stroke oil in 5 gallons of gas. A typical two stroke engine runs on a splash of oil comparatively.

Ugh. Here we go again. We've been down this road before, but Scof, you seem to continue to want to cause an argument for no other reason than to cause a disruption. I suppose that's why you chose your particular screen name (although it's spelled with two F's, by the way). Conversation and discussion is good, but to be productive it needs to be based MUCH more on fact than simply a naive comment like "it's always worked for me".

So let's address some issues, here. First, Scott is correct that there is a huge difference between what a 2-cycle runs on under normal operating conditions and what we're adding here for fogging. Do you know what the ratio is that most 2-cycle engines use of gasil? I do (as I'm sure others do, as well). I also know that many 2-cycle, oil-injected engines can alter the amount of oil being injected to be even leaner than the "typical". But if we go with the normally accepted ratio, then what we're putting in for winterization is roughly 5 times the amount of oil.

I suppose that answers your "nice simple question", but let's take it a step further as to why. Here's an easy question... Does fogging fluid protect BETTER than 2-cycle oil? Yes, it is much stickier. So there's another reason that 2-cycle engines get fogged with fogging fluid. Because... ta dah... it protects BETTER. And why wouldn't someone want to do the BEST thing they can do for their engine?

Back to our 4-strokes... As we discussed (although maybe you didn't read well enough) earlier, it's generally not a good idea to use fogging fluid with an injected engine because of the sensors - the fogging fluid can foul them - especially the MPI's. So since we can't use the BEST thing, we use the next best thing which is a super dose of 2-cycle oil. That at least coats the interior of the upper cylinder a little better than the minute amount (if anything at all after the washdown from gasoline) of residual oil that would be caught in the cross hatching. It's not the best, but it's better than nothing.

Regarding the "I've never had a problem not using 2-cycle" comment... That's not a logical way to approach this. Just because an engine starts, runs and the boat appears to perform normally, does not mean that some corrosion is not happening and that over time there won't be a loss of performance. How much? Hard to say. But it WILL happen.

Oh, and regarding the "outside doesn't rust, so the inside doesn't" comment... that's also illogical since the outside of an engine DOES rust. Even a painted one does as moisture gets under the paint and causes bubbling, etc. How is that solved? Sanding and re-painting. Since we can't do that to the inside of the engine, coating it with oil is the best thing we we can do. To say that an unpainted, unprotected, BARE metal component will not corrode (especially in a marine environment) is... well... another naive statement.

I think this all comes back to simply trying to do the BEST we can for that thing that allows us to do what we love to do. Why wouldn't someone want to protect it the best they can, especially considering how easy it is?

 

[scoflaw]

You sure act like you are. Let's just say this, I hope the eventual purchaser of your boat believes in buyer beware.

Don't worry about me... If I were you I'd focus on underwater objects and lightning strikes

 

[scoflaw]

Speaking of which, I looked up your previous threads, you seem to have had quite a few issues with your boat in the past too.....Pot, meet kettle.

Anyway, I have more important stuff to do at the moment, have a great week and I do hope you get to get on the water soon. (I mean that sincerely, no malice.)

Quite a few issues? Tell me more about them. Did I have any down time?

 

[Strecker25]

Just a follow up. Fogged our mains yesterday using the filter method, worked fine. No extra smoke to notice like LD said, but a slight smell of oil was left at the exhaust of the drives giving me peace of mind the cocktail ran through properly.