First Boat Recommendation for the Chesapeake Bay

scooper321

scooper321

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2015
1,857
Baltimore, MD
Boat Info
2003 Sea Ray 400DB
Engines
Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
Hi,

New member, first post. A friend took me on his Sea Ray 400 a week or so back and I've been struck with the bug. Before I run out any buy something, I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I'm looking strongly at Sea Ray - for quality, features and resale. But I'm looking at others, too. My intent is for recreational use, cruising the Chesapeake Bay and adjoining rivers. I'm not a fisherman, so fishing features aren't important. But the ability to live aboard for a weekend, or longer, is. I don't need to pull anything other than maybe a tube. Mostly cruising, docking, anchoring and relaxing.

I'm settled on a cruiser/express cruiser, but what size? I know my budget will dictate that. But there is flexibility. When I ask people about the "size" of the boat for the Bay, I get lots of answers. Some say low to mid 20s, others say over 30 is needed to deal with the 3' chop. I got on board a 280 at a local dealer this weekend and it's tight, but hey - it's a boat. I haven't been on a 260 yet, so I'm not sure how much tighter that would feel. The 260 is the biggest I can get with an 8'6" beam (the largest you can tow in MD without a permit).

Because they are easier to maneuver, I do plan on a dual prop boat (I think I just ruled out the 260, didn't I?).

Speaking of towing, I don't have a vehicle capable of pulling it. And no trailer. So I'm pretty sure I'll be slipping, lifting or storing the boat at a marina. I'd rather not buy a boat and then have to buy a tow vehicle, too. Perhaps saving the cost of a tow vehicle will allow me more money to put to the boat, gas and repairs! Or should I reconsider this, as using a trailer would save me money on slip fees and make some service easier and cheaper.

But will the 260 handle the Bay well? What's it like sleeping 4 on a 260? On a 280? I could envision going out on the water with 4-6 adults (maybe 8 on rare occasions), but only ever sleeping 4. Would a 300 be better? A 320? The 320 is where my wallet starts to complain. Since the wallet has a big say, what I really want to know is: what's the SMALLEST Sundancer that can handle the normal Bay conditions?

Finally, I should also say that I'm new to boating. Cruising, anyway. So at this point, a 320 seems really big! Would it be a bad idea to get a 300 or 320 as a first boat? I definitely plan to get a captain on board to help me learn the boat when I buy it. But also for a few early voyages, too, to help instruct me with piloting, docking, etc.

I think you know everything about me now! Any recommendations would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance!
 
My 290 gets tight with 2 adults and 2 kids for a weekend. The most expensive part of boating is selling the smaller one to buy a bigger one. I doubt anyone will advise starting smaller. 300 for 4 adults is where I would start. More if you can swing it.
 
My wife and I spend many 2-3 day weekends aboard our 260. If others want to spend the night, they do so in a lodge room in a state park or a nearby motel. IMO, more than 2 sleeping on a 260 is not doable-maybe a small kid or two, but even teenagers would be too tight for us.

We do enjoy the ability to be mobile. We live 1.5 hrs from Lake Lanier to the west and 3-other large lakes to the east. Plus we just returned from a 500 mile round trip vacation where we took the boat. We often talk about moving up, but I keep coming back to the ability to not be "lake bound." You first have to decide what your priorities are and then decide what concessions you are willing to make. Just my $.02

Bennett
 
Good point about being lake bound. The advantage of being located where I am is that I'll be on the Chesapeake Bay. It's a huge body of water, with many rivers, creeks and canals feeding it. So there are plenty of places to go, places to visit and things to see and do. If it were a lake, I think I'd be more worried about being "lake bound". But being "Bay bound", when the Bay is the Chesapeake, isn't daunting at all.
 
If you are going to keep the boat in a slip rather than trailer it, I would suggest looking at an older 280. That was my first "big boat". My 280 was a 1989 that had a 10' 6" beam so it was roomy in comparison to some of the newer 260 and 280's with the 8' 6" beam. They also came with twin 5.7s I/Os (not duo props, but I don't think I needed them). My boat also carried 120 gallons of gas, so it had a decent range. My boat handled the chop well and I never felt like I was in over my head (though common sense and good seamanship is always needed). I could sleep 4 adults comfortably in 3 sleeping areas with privacy curtains closing off 2 of the areas. She had a full wet head (no separate shower stall), 2 burner stove, small fridge, hot water heater and A/C. I added a 5kw generator for power underway. Boats from that era can be obtained for a modest price, so your wallet does not have to be stretched too bad. We loved the boat and probably would still have her if she was not totaled by Hurricane Sandy. We did put a lot into her: remanufactered engines, headliner, new upholstery, new camper canvas, new cockpit seats. We did have to fix a soft spot in the deck under the port side railings, so have the surveyor check for soft spots if you go this way. Good luck on your search and welcome to a great family activity!
 
You have a needs versus size issue. If you rule out tubing or pulling someone I would go to the biggest you can afford. Most people buy multiple boats and take a financial hit. Sleeping 4 means around 30' or larger. Our first boat was a 340 sundancer and four people got right quickly, but was doable.


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I have to admit, a 340 is intimidating for a fist boat. I like the 310 and 320 though!

As for competing needs... That NEVER happens with a big purchase! Lol. And yeah, towing anyone in the water would be a nice to have but not necessary. So that would be the first thing to give up.

No one has expressed concern over size so it sounds like the size (28+) my "needs" require puts me in a boat that is "Bay worthy"?

It's blasphemy, but I've also been looking at Four Winns, Cruisers and Chaparrel cruisers in the 28 to 32 ft range too.


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I understand the need to explore the market with all brands.

Personally, I think Sea Ray's hold their value over time. At some point you will probably go one of two directions: Either the boat bug does not stick and you want out - or - you learn more about what you prefer and want more space and you want to move to a different boat. The value that what you buy now will be important.

We spent 2-3 summers cruising around the Chesapeake a few years ago (on bare boats we chartered). Love the area. Would take a long time to tire of the options you have for cruising.

Mark
 
I think most of us would agree that we usually buy our first boat only to learn what we should have bought in our first boat. "2 foot-itis" is real and expensive. Take your time and talk to owners of different models but most importantly go out and look. Take advantage of ride offers and demos whenever you can. Even if your thinking you want a 260 go out on a 330 if you have a chance. You might find that going in bigger than you imagined will save you money in the long run. Also, don't worry about operating a "big" boat. Generally, the larger boats have better manners and there is plenty of help around.
 
Our 310 is tight for sleeping 3-4 adults once you put it to practical application. Yes, you CAN sleep 5-6 in the cabin, but no one will be happy if you try. The mid-berth is about the size of a longish full-sized bed, only it's surrounded on 3 sides by bulkhead and only has about 3' of overhead clearance, so when the inside person has to get up, it's a real annoyance. Two adults CAN sleep there, but comfort becomes an issue fast, especially for tall or wide people, or if anyone moves - at all. The forward berth isn't much better on space, and has the same overhead issue.

Remember, the intimidation of learning to handle a bigger boat will pass as you acquire experience. The constraints of being on a small boat will only get worse over time.
 
Welcome! See you are local to our boat. In addition to what everyone else said you have quite a few great local options to wet slip your boat!

If you really like the Sea Ray Sundancer you might want to look at a 99-01 340. They might come in a bit cheaper than the 320s.

Of course I am a bit bias as that model shares my hull.

Factor in slip, insurance, fuel, and winter storage too!

Good luck and pm me with any questions as you narrow down your search.

Most important take your time and have fun!



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vernh59 said:
I think most of us would agree that we usually buy our first boat only to learn what we should have bought in our first boat. "2 foot-itis" is real and expensive. Take your time and talk to owners of different models but most importantly go out and look. Take advantage of ride offers and demos whenever you can. Even if your thinking you want a 260 go out on a 330 if you have a chance. You might find that going in bigger than you imagined will save you money in the long run. Also, don't worry about operating a "big" boat. Generally, the larger boats have better manners and there is plenty of help around.
Click to expand...
Could not agree more. You caught the bug on a 400...my first ever boat was our 410. Was I intimidated at first? Absolutely. But as everyone has said, bigger boats are actually easier to handle. I would go as big as is practical and affordable for you. You won't regret it.
 
I have a 300 Sundancer and have cruised all over the bay from North just past Baltimore to south to Tilghman Island and Chesapeake Beach. I regularly have 3-4 people aboard for overnights/weekends, and more if just for day trips. My max sleeping was 7. (2 in the front bunk, adult+2kids in aft, someone on the salon couch and one in the cockpit with camper canvas up). I cruise with friends varying from 270DA to mid-40 footers Searay and other brands. I have to pay attention to the weather more than the bigger boats do, but 2 foot chop is doable. More than that and it becomes a matter of your tolerance for banging around in the waves, or pulling off plane and cruising along at 7-9knots. If you are willing to go slow, the boat will handle the seas. You can also cozy up behind a bigger boat to help knock down the chop and stay on plane. My standard compliment of guests is not as friendly to slow wallowing in the waves, so we try to avoid going out in the bay when they are calling for 2'+ seas. I have other friends who have taken their 280DA to Chesapeake City and Solomons, so it's doable. Depending on where the wind is coming from, you can also minimize the roughness and exposure by using the land as a shield or varying your course to avoid taking the chop straight on the bow. The good news is, as you point out, the bay has A LOT to offer, so on unfavorable weather days, we find a creek or anchorage to go explore within our river or nearby river to minimize exposure to the rougher seas of the fully open Bay.

One other thing to consider is your tolerance for living with/around your gear. When there are only two sleeping aboard, the mid-berth on smaller boats often becomes a storage location for your bags and a few water toys/cushions. If there are 3-4 people aboard, we offload more of the water toys and bow / cockpit filler cushions that live back there. Good news in that case is that the added company makes up for water toys that provide activity for filling time without guests. Bigger boats offer more storage, and more room to store "stuff" you may not use all that often. That said, there is never enough storage on any boat... just something to be aware of.

Lastly, in the range of boats you are considering, layout can vary a lot. That can help make a decision for you. You'll also find that 2' jumps can make a big difference in how big a boat feels. My 300 is both longer and wider than the 280, and the next jump to a 320 makes my boat feel small inside due to the extra beam it has. You will have to find the balance between living space needs, and Bigger... fuel bills (my 300 with twin 5.0s burns 22gallons per hour)... marina fees (home base and per foot transient rates), maintenance items (outdrives vs transmissions/shafts, one engine or two, ac, generator) etc. Lots of factors to consider in the "bigger is better" philosophy, but valid arguments to be had on both sides of that equation.

Happy to talk with you about my Bay cruising activities if you want. PM me and I'll send you my email/#.
 
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Persona question I know, sorry, but here goes. What is your budget?

It's a buyers market right now and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

I own a 330. It is a great boat for weekending. Without the loan, the boat costs ~$650 per month to own before I leave the slip. Get out in the water and the additional cost goes up depending on speed. Figure $100 per hour at cruise.

Are re you SURE you want an express? I'm 60 and depending on vertical clearance to get into a marina, I probable willp not get another express cruiser. The "cave" comparison is not too far off. I prefer more light while relaxing at the dock or waiting out a passing storm. Something to consider.

How handy are you? If you can do your own maintenance, you will save a lot. If not, count on $100 per hour IF AND WHEN you can get seen.

I'm sure others will chime in. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but if you do your homework, honestly, with yourself your boat is more more likely to be one of the ones away from the slip as opposed to tied to it on weekends.

my 2 cents
 
JimFromMD brought up a great point - that sometimes gets left out. All the "stuff" that gets wheeled out to the boat on the carts.

When you think about sleeping x number of people on board - don't forget the bags they will bring. Can get crowded in a hurry. If you are doing day cruises - no problems. If you are thinking about 2 couples overnighting - can get a bit tight in a hurry. Then there is food, snacks, and refreshments. Maybe a couple of rafts - floaty things.

One huge advantage you have in the Chesapeake is there are so many places you can go and spend the night where there is nearby lodging on shore.

I would not want to spend overnights with 4 adults on a 30' or less boat. But given where you are - you could cruise 6 adults - then at night your guests sleep on shore. A good number of really nice cruising destinations have lodging adjacent or near the marina's.

dpmulvey made a great point - consider your budget.

Establish a budget for annual operating costs- factor in operational costs (marina, maintenance, etc) - then see what options fit your budget.

Are you interested in doing your own maintenance? Oil Changes, washing/waxing, and mechanical. Or will you spend time boating and hire services done?

Personally - I am not hung up on the year model of the boat - rather the condition of the boat and the layout. Is it a boat that allows me to do what I want to do? What condition am I starting with? I have seen people get a great price on a boat, then have to spend $$'s catching up on maintenance that was not done by the previous owner. Not necessarily all bad - just make sure you have those costs factored in.

Any boat - things just quit working. Was talking to Frank before we got this last boat, he made a statement that he would have no open issues on his boat, leave for a couple of weeks, come back and had a list of thinks that had to be dealt with. Not major stuff - for example the windshield vent quits working - but in a salt water environment - stuff just breaks sitting there.

There are a lot of people on here that can be of tremendous help.

We all want more boaters participating. Welcome aboard.

Mark
 
Read what JimFromMd wrote again. Its all true. I owned a 95 300 and now have a 2006 340. There is no comparison between the two when riding in the bay. We have had 6-8 people on each boat. The 300 felt every one of them. The 340 carried them and waves well. When its just the two of us it handles the bay and its sloppy days very well. As for sleeping quarters.....regardless of size boat it's the same answer....It only sleeps 2... Best of luck on your decisions... But 28-30+ is ideal for the bay...
 
Wow. Thanks for all the feedback. You guys are absolutely right about making sure I know the cost of operating, in addition to the cost of buying. Obviously, the goal is to buy a boat with high enough quality and in good enough shape that maintenance costs are low, at least upfront! Ha ha!

And no, I'm not afraid to do my own maintenance. I can turn a wrench. The only thing I'm lacking is the information, the knowledge. But that's why they make a shop manual, right? And that's why God invented YouTube!in this forum, too! I have to admit, washing and waxing the boat is not my idea of great fun. I'd rather be on the water. But I understand it's part of the deal. I suspect each episode of maintenance or repair will be a decision as to do it myself or pay someone to do it. All depends on how much money is in my wallet and how badly I want to be on back on the water fast.

To answer the one question, my budget is around $50,000. Actually, ideally it would be under $40,000, but I don't think I'll get something I'd be happy with under 40. So probably around 50, if I can sweet talk the seller, a little under.

The question about whether I really want to express cruiser is a good one. I'm not sure? What are my options in this size range? Are there sedan cruisers in the 30 foot range? Are any of them Sea Ray's? I think of the traditional cabin cruiser or sedan cruiser as a much bigger boat that I can afford right now. I do know I'm not interested in a trawler, a bow rider or a center console. .But if there are other options in this size range, I'm all ears!

Glad to be here, and I appreciate the dialogue!



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Welcome aboard. No knowledge of where you'll be boating, other than to say if it's salt water it seems best to not have IO's.

Brand: I've had numerous boats, and a few different brands. I went from the lower end to the higher end for two reasons. First, it's your pride and joy and you'll be spending the time on it - cheap stuff sucks. Second - when you go to sell, you won't (usually) take it in the shorts as much.

Size: If you do away with the tubing aspect, the bigger the better. Our previous boat was a 310DA. Nice boat, but very cramped for 2 adults and 2 kids, and little to no privacy. Our 370 has resolved those issues. Also, personally - the more beam the better.

Operating: I was a bit intimidated when looking to go from the 310 to the 370, I shouldn't have been. Do everything slow around others or docking, and all is well. Additionally, docking the 370 is far easier because of the V drives than docking the 310 with IO's - a completely different world of handling.

Sounds to me factoring in everything, something along the lines of late 90's 330 sounds like it's in the right neighborhood.

Enjoy the journey...
 
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My input - in 2001 I bought my first boat. A SeaRay 1988 Sundancer twin engine and a 10.6 beam. Loved the boat. What I didn't know was if I would like boating since I had never been boating. It was clear to me that summer, 2002, that I wished I had never bought the boat. Not b/c the engine issue but b/c the boat was too small and there were things I wanted. Since then some 5 years ago I bought the 400EC. Love this boat as well but now that my wife and I are headed in different directions I really don't need something this big. So for me whether I am alone or my sons and their families are in I wish I had bought either a 340 or 360. Probably year wise 1999 to 200????? It would have all the things my 400 has but just be a little bit smaller. Please don't get me wrong my 400 is an awesome boat out on the bay or in tight docking areas. She handles like a dream. Sure I am not going tubing with her so I bought a SeaDoo Jet boat with twin engines. That is fun.
Not sure if this helps but think a little bigger but not too big. Think about your needs.
Joe
 
We settled on a 280DA after a couple of years of looking due to the fact it is the smallest package where you can get everything a bigger boat has...generator, heat, a/c, windlass, twin engines, arch, etc. I have been in near 3ft. waters in the Bay between Solomon's and the Potomac and while the boat handled great, it was a bit annoying and exhausting with all the bouncing and banging around. We have slept 2 adults, 2 kids no problem. I wouldn't mind sleeping 4 adults below either, just haven't. The cockpit layout isn't the greatest; I'm not a fan of the port side lounger facing the stern. Ok, so ideally if I had to purchase another boat after owning this 280DA for nearly 5 years it would be an '03ish 340DA. But you're talking double the price... Good luck! (btw, my Enter key doesn't work on this forum; sorry for lack of paragraphs!).
 
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