Exhaust Manifold Replacement may not be necessary

searay205

Member
Nov 27, 2016
64
Houston
Boat Info
2011 Searay sport
Engines
5.0MPI Catalyst
I had an interesting conversation with an engineer which worked for Mercruiser back in the 90's. I discussed with him exhaust manifold replacement. He said in the 90's Mercruiser worked on an electrodeposition coating for the internal and external surfaces on their manifolds and risers. Mercruiser would then paint over the coating for appearance. In a nut shell it extended manifold life dramatically possibly to lifetime. He believed the thermostat housing and heads started getting the coatings the early 2000's. He said manifolds failure now occur because of cracking vs. corrosion. Cracking is caused by fastener location, vibration, and sediment build up creating hot spots. Most Mercruisers engines are GM engines, the manifolds on an marine engine are much heavier than on a car engine, this leads to stress around the mounting holes.

I discussed the cost of the new catalyst manifolds and he indicated they should never need replaced due to the coating. He said if you are not seeing rust stains or discoloration the manifolds are not deteriorating. I know exactly what he is talking about. I drained my engine block to prevent freezing and a huge puddle was left on the concrete. I thought for sure there would be a huge rust stain once it evaporated, there was none just some sediment. If you start seeing rust stains you are back to a 5 year expected life.

The kicker is aftermarket manifold manufactures OSCO, BARR do not use the coating and I know the rust he is talking about. I actually would flush my engine in front of my house so I wouldn't get rust stain on the driveway on my other boat.

My buddy had a 350MAG where the manifolds failed due to cracking. I busted them apart and was shocked to find no rust. They had cracked in one of the corners due to sediment. The new catalyst manifolds are much smoother almost a pipe in a pipe this should reduce the ability for the sediment to accumulate.

He did saying flushing is very important. He estimated you get about 70% of the "salt" out. the other 30% gets attached due to its tenacious bounding properties. Once it solidifies it is there to stay. To guarantee no crystallation maintain cooling temps below 140F. Funny he said that because that is what my thermostat was in my last boat which lasted in excess of 30 years. He said they are now running 160F and would recommend 140F but the engine needs to be designed with the proper clearances to run 140F to prevent excessive engine wear (hot piston, cold cylinder). He said very rare for an engine to ever corrode through since the temps are low, in the manifold however run much hotter.

So in a nutshell the old philosophy of changing manifolds every 4-6 years is not applicable to any Mercruiser engine built after 2000 unless cracking occurs which usually leads to an external leak.

Let the flames begin....
 
I agree with you about the manifolds in a closed cooling engine. From experience the
Risers and Elbows are another story.
 
The risers are also coated. As long as they do not plug there should not be an issue. Temperature is the enemy of manifolds due to the crystallization of salt. Risers are hotter than manifolds which are hotter than the engine block. So if something were to fail it would make sense risers would be first. In freshwater you never have to replace manifolds. I know a guy with a 25 year old boat in fresh water and original manifolds and risers. 1000's of hours.
 
Wanted to followup on Mercrusier Catalyst manifolds. 2010 Mercruiser 5.0 MPI used in saltwater for 300 hours. Flushed 90% of time. No other treatment but flush. Run hard. I ordered and replaced my Mercruiser catalyst manifolds. It was a waste. Original manifolds looked fantastic. I removed freeze plugs scraped away some black crap/marine garbage and like new black coating underneath. Manifolds would have lasted life of engine. PERIOD, do not replace manifolds. On to risers. Discharge of riser that goes into rubber connector completely corroded, I had to bust it out of boot. On bottom of riser on discharge side there is tube that discharges water which is in addition to the the casting passages, it was the only way water was exiting the riser/engine. Surprised it wasn't overheating but it wasn't (verified with Rinda scan tool). So Riser needed replaced due to end condition BUT actual riser where there are water passengers wasn't thinned or corroded to any extent. I took a drill and drilled numerous holes and found full thickness. I checked right were superheated exhaust hits after exhaust passes through catalyst so its the worst environment. Bottom line if engine not overheating run the manifolds and risers indefinelty, if overheats and can find reason check risers. I found large chunks of rust in my outdrive when doing water pump for years, guess I know where it was coming from, the riser where the water and air mix. Doestn hurt anything as long as you still getting enough water to pass through. Nobody makes aftermarket cat manifolds so if you have cat manifolds you have lifetime manifolds no replacement necessary!!!!! My engine IS NOT CLOSED COOLING, IT IS COOLED BY SEAWATER.
 
Damn it 2018…. E-coat is a paint…. I would have a hard time thinking merc would paint internal water jackets…. It would be almost impossible.
I have made exhaust manifolds for every major Diesel engine manufacturer in NA and no one has ever coated internal passages…. Short of Navistar …. They steam oxide their Hi-Sil moly iron manifolds. I asked the head engineer years ago…. Why? He said because they always have :eek:… and they still do today
 
Probably dip them. I got an aluminum manifold and risor motor 8.1, what trash talk was said about those?
 
I have 2004 Mercury 8.1 Horizons and am showing rust stains where the manifolds meet the risers (they are cast iron)... Mechanic says replace them, but he says he can just do the gaskets if I choose... Manifolds and risers for the 8.1 are $3200 per motor just for parts alone, its crazy... This was a Gulf/Florida boat since new and I just got it up to Massachusetts. Wondering if I can get away with just gaskets if what is being said is true.. Motors have 850 hours on them.
 
I have 2004 Mercury 8.1 Horizons and am showing rust stains where the manifolds meet the risers (they are cast iron)... Mechanic says replace them, but he says he can just do the gaskets if I choose... Manifolds and risers for the 8.1 are $3200 per motor just for parts alone, its crazy... This was a Gulf/Florida boat since new and I just got it up to Massachusetts. Wondering if I can get away with just gaskets if what is being said is true.. Motors have 850 hours on them.
Has everything been in salt water for 18 years?
 
Has everything been in salt water for 18 years?

I just took possession of the boat in the fall... My understanding is this boat came with aluminum manifolds so they must have been changed out at some point, I just don't have records for that... The boat was a gulf coast florida boat its entire life before being brought to Massachusetts last fall.
 
Every manifold /riser over 3 years old has rust at that joint. Means nothing!!!! Unless you are running hot don’t touch. Coating is applied by dipping with electrical charge. Similar to chrome plating.

do you see any water drips or water on outside of joint? Ok worse case scenario it’s the same on inside joint. Not enough water to even get to cylinder. When engine off zero pressure in cooling passages. Oh better as you pull out of ramp inertia forced water out of riser. So 99% of time joint exposure to water is ounces of water which must leak past gasket. When engine running exhaust gases pressure joint.
 
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Every manifold /riser over 3 years old has rust at that joint. Means nothing!!!! Unless you are running hot don’t touch. Coating is applied by dipping with electrical charge. Similar to chrome plating.

do you see any water drips or water on outside of joint? Ok worse case scenario it’s the same on inside joint. Not enough water to even get to cylinder. When engine off zero pressure in cooling passages. Oh better as you pull out of ramp inertia forced water out of riser. So 99% of time joint exposure to water is ounces of water which must leak past gasket. When engine running exhaust gases pressure joint.

so do you think I can just get away with having them pulled, inspected, and replacing the gaskets, then reinstalling the existing manifolds and risers? I really don’t want to waste money as my budget is already super tight for this season and 8.1 manifolds and risers are about $3200 for parts alone, but I also don’t want to risk blowing a motor. Saving $6400 sounds pretty effing sweet right about now haha, even if it means $500 or so in labor to pull inspect and reinstall with new gaskets
 
You can get away with doing nothing. Replacing the gaskets isn't helping anything. I am positive they will find additional work for you once they get in there taking stuff apart. Part cost you were quoted is insanity. I seen manifolds and elbows for $850 on Amazon for whole engine (aftermarket). Your shop is a bunch of fucking crooks. On PartVu you can get an Mercruiser manifold for $305 free shipping no tax. So I surmise using all Mercruiser parts you can do each engine for under $1200 in mercruiser parts. Aftermarket about $850. You don't have a Catalyst engine (thank God) or you be $2k plus.

You can get on mercruiser parts.com go to parts diagram, get the parts number, go to partsVu and add them up. two manifolds, two risers, two elbows, exhaust manifold gasket, riser gaskets.

850hrs and 2004 I wouldn't loose sleep replacing them at this point, you got 22 years. If closed cooling just do the risers and elbows, Probably less than $800 in parts for both engines.
 
You can get away with doing nothing. Replacing the gaskets isn't helping anything. I am positive they will find additional work for you once they get in there taking stuff apart. Part cost you were quoted is insanity. I seen manifolds and elbows for $850 on Amazon for whole engine (aftermarket). Your shop is a bunch of fucking crooks. On PartVu you can get an Mercruiser manifold for $305 free shipping no tax. So I surmise using all Mercruiser parts you can do each engine for under $1200 in mercruiser parts. Aftermarket about $850. You don't have a Catalyst engine (thank God) or you be $2k plus.

You can get on mercruiser parts.com go to parts diagram, get the parts number, go to partsVu and add them up. two manifolds, two risers, two elbows, exhaust manifold gasket, riser gaskets.

850hrs and 2004 I wouldn't loose sleep replacing them at this point, you got 22 years. If closed cooling just do the risers and elbows, Probably less than $800 in parts for both engines.

For some reason the 8.1 motor is crazy expensive for manifolds and risers.. And no company makes an aftermarket set (possibly why merc charges so much) I haven't seen the manifolds for under $800 each (with gaskets), and the riser/elbow is another $700, over $3k/motor with tax and shipping... PLEASE if you have seen them cheaper let me know!
 
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For some reason the 8.1 motor is crazy expensive for manifolds and risers.. And no company makes an aftermarket set (possibly why merc charges so much) I haven't seen the manifolds for under $800 each (with gaskets), and the riser/elbow is another $700, over $3k/motor with tax and shipping... PLEASE if you have seen them cheaper let me know!
Here’s my invoice from last March. 7.4. These are Mercruiser parts not aftermarket. Look close. $323 each manifold. Risers $195.
Is the 8.1 an exotic block? I thought it is a bored out 7.4.
 
The elbow is stainless, they can crack but don't rot. The manifolds and risors could be aluminum. Check them out
 
The elbow is stainless, they can crack but don't rot. The manifolds and risors could be aluminum. Check them out

My manifolds are definitely cast iron, and they seem to be the updated ones without the water rail... I'm leaning against replacing due to the cost.. as long as they inspect well and don't appear to be clogged up, from what I see there is zero possible way of water getting into the exhaust from the manifold, the water passages are so far from the exhaust passages


View attachment 122715
Here’s my invoice from last March. 7.4. These are Mercruiser parts not aftermarket. Look close. $323 each manifold. Risers $195.
Is the 8.1 an exotic block? I thought it is a bored out 7.4.

I'm not sure how the 8.1 compares to the 7.4, but I know it uses separate manifolds and risers than a 7.4 (the parts are the same for the 8.2 though), and for some reason they are CRAZY expensive... I'm thinking I'm going to just replace the riser/elbow and the gasket with turbulator and call it a day, still $1500/ motor though.
 

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