Engineering 101 on the 460DA

Asureyez

New Member
Apr 22, 2007
1,535
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.
Boat Info
Sea Ray 460 Sundancer Hardtop 2001 - SOLD
Engines
Cummins 450 Diesels
Sometimes I just have to say "What were you thinking" when encountering poorly considered choices made by boat designers.

Every owner encounters the need to clean the bilge and for sure after the mechs leave.

Every time I see the air conditioning pump set up on the 460 I want to scream ... no really more like shake the designers silly. As you know the 460 has two compressor units in the cabin which are fed by a single 220 volt pump. Thats okay, but the pump is nested up under the battery box making it difficult to get to the sea cocks and also placed under the battery box where there is scant clearance. Then we also run plastic fresh water lines to a bilge wash down spigot and place that under the battery box. Great use of space, every thing is real cozy under there and real wet ...

And then what does out designer do .... uses an open armature pump motor on 220v placed just 5 inches from the armature vents! This sucker is inches from the spigot and the only access under the port engine to wash down, clean and pump out liquids from under the engine. And no cut out switch in the bilge for this fiasco.

I'm thinking this pump has to go, what say you all?

Has anyone installed a lift pump in these retained bilges ?

Now, that feels better ...
 
Not usually being without an opinion, I agree with you, but can tell you that if this is your only 460 engine room complaint, you aren't throught looking yet. While they are great boats in most respects, I tend to belive the 460DA engine room is one of the worst Sea Ray has provided us on yachts and sport yachts, particularly if you do your own maintenance.

By the way, don't get in a hurry on the A/C pump......just wait till you step on and break off it's plastic end as you climb down the ladder in to the bilge.............
 
You never know a womon until you live with her!

Frank, I moved up from a 96 - 37 SR with Merc's. That engine room was so tight I litterly had to grese my way between the engines to service it and the genny was placed outboard to SB and was impossible to get at for anyone bigger than a 6 YO child.

When I got on a 460 I went nuts with all the room in the ER, but once I've come to really know her, I see all her warts. You'd commented before about the layout of the 460 ER as being thrown in ... and I agree it is somewhat that way. But, I'd describe it more the design weenies just never finished their thoughts. In that what they did wasn't all that bad, it just was poorly executed and never thought through from a how to service or repair or get at in a heaving sea.

Cases in point:

1. Batteries are mounted on a plywood platform straddling the two inboard engine stringers. Fine, but ... the wood is 5/8 " and painted where it should have been 1" and glassed with two doublers instead of one on the bottom and the base elevated another 6-8 inches to allow for reasonable access to the front bilge and the seacocks and sending units placed there. Had it been higher, the Airconditioner pump could have been slid futher forward and sheltered by the Bat platform.

2. Waste holding tanks should have been mounted in the stern outboard where no one ever has to get to and theis would have allowed the engines to have been mounted 18 inches forward and balanced the stern weight better with no loss in the non existent access.

3. Cable master should have been placed further back and outboard to SB (with re sited Holding tank) and allowed a more fair lead for the cable. With this moved maint access to the SB engine would be improved.

4. Bilge lighting is a joke ... and no switch in the bilge is ... well cruel

5. SR dropped the cockpit stoage on the underside of the ER day hatch, that was a mistake. While heavier duty gas shocks might have been required on the day hatch, there is no place to put that thing when crusing off shore.

6. Access to sea cocks and aft bilge is under the genny and clearance is maybe a foot. I have to ge ton my belly to work the sea cock shut offs on the mains are always stiff.

7. Access to the filter screens on the ZF marine gear is ... well it just isn't there!

8. Air cond. pump is open armature and the Electrical connection box is not water tight and suface mounted wher eis it sure to get soaked from time to time. Bad Bad dangerous design. They went with cheaper open motor because they do not percieve explosion danger in deisel, but in their glee to save $30 bucks they placed the owner in real jeapordy of being electrocuted! And the use of garden hose for sea water intake and plastic pump housing is all just too RecVe in their thinking and not seaman like in design or execution.

Oh there is more on my list, but time for those another day.

I do hope SR engineers come here and read this stuff from time to time ...

The 460 has as challenging an ER as my old 37 ... its bigger but as difficult for different reasons.
 
Chad,

This is one of those cases where I truly believe that the marketing folks made the decisions and the end result is less of a boat than the one they replaced.

The 460DA interior is modern, slick, roomy and beautiful. The engine spaces are not.

I have the predecessor to your boat, a 450DA and I have none of the problems you mentioned except for bilge lighting which I remedied by installing 120V explosion proof fixtures in my engine room switched from the bulkhead in the bilge...........I need sunglasses to change my oil!

But there are some reasons for the 460 "warts". Holding tanks and Cablemaster need to be as far forward as thay are because the 460 is already stern heavy. More weight there would make the bow rise and nose high attitude worse. The A/C pump housing needs to be non-metallic because the impeller in those pumps is a magnetic drive so you can flush the system with fresh water without damaging a fixed impeller.

In my opinion, the best place for the Cablemaster is on the dock or in the dumpster.

Now........... if you are ready for a move up and want to see and engine room that is a work of art, take a look at about a 2004-5 500DA.
 

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