Engine won’t start

C

Captain Jimbo

Member
May 10, 2012
94
Seattle
Boat Info
1997 Sundancer 250
Engines
Mercruiser 5.7L Bravo
I try starting the engine and I immediately get a strange sound like scraping or coughing or both...I quit trying to start it because it sounds bad ! It started fine yesterday and I had it out on the water all day , ran it wide open for awhile, and it started fine a couple times yesterday...although there was one issue that may be related, the starter alarm went on for a minute or more and I had to cut the engine, then restart and the alarm was off. I just had a tune up a few months ago and have had starting problems previously like continuous turning over, and the mechanic changed all 8 spark plugs because they were all blackened or fouled ...after only three months! I thought they forgot to change the plugs at the tune up, but now I’m wondering if there’s a bigger problem related to the timing and pistons not firing right?
Any ideas anyone ?
I have had a few issues since I got the tune up, one was the starting alarm wouldn’t shut off, and then the engine would die at low rpm, both problems were fixed by the Sea Ray mobile mechanic, now this starting issue

Let me know if anyone has any thoughts , thanks!
 
That's not actually a starting alarm. It's a warning/fault alarm that sounds when you first start the engine so you'll know that it can sound if there's a warning/fault while running. It's the same as all the warning lights in your car coming on when you first start up.

It was trying to tell you something with that alarm. The most likely faults for a '97 are high temp and low oil pressure. Did you by chance check those after the alarm sounded?
 
As Coastr mentioned, that alarm that sounded is VERY important. It is a "turn me off IMMEDIATELY warning or damage may happen". Now, it could be a flaky sensor, but it could also mean your engine is, as mentioned, overheating or very low on oil pressure (both can be catastrophic to the engine). Low drive fluid (your model year may have this) is another reason the alarm may sound. But again, it's a turn me off immediately thing. A minute "or more" is enough time to possibly do damage.

When the mechanic fixed the alarm the first time, what was the reason for the alarm?

What is your current oil level and how much water is the raw water pump pumping? There are tests that can be done for the raw water pump whether in or out of the water... but... I'm going to suggest you leave that to your mechanic.

While it's unclear exactly what the scraping/coughing sound could be (sometimes hard to tell via a forum), based on what you have written I would highly suggest NOT running the engine again - do not even start it up temporarily. Get it to your mechanic.
 
RollerCoastr said:
That's not actually a starting alarm. It's a warning/fault alarm that sounds when you first start the engine so you'll know that it can sound if there's a warning/fault while running. It's the same as all the warning lights in your car coming on when you first start up.

It was trying to tell you something with that alarm. The most likely faults for a '97 are high temp and low oil pressure. Did you by chance check those after the alarm sounded?
Click to expand...
I did check both and the gauges said they were fine, but I’m having my mechanic look today . Thanks !
 
Lazy Daze said:
As Coastr mentioned, that alarm that sounded is VERY important. It is a "turn me off IMMEDIATELY warning or damage may happen". Now, it could be a flaky sensor, but it could also mean your engine is, as mentioned, overheating or very low on oil pressure (both can be catastrophic to the engine). Low drive fluid (your model year may have this) is another reason the alarm may sound. But again, it's a turn me off immediately thing. A minute "or more" is enough time to possibly do damage.

When the mechanic fixed the alarm the first time, what was the reason for the alarm?

He thought it was falsely reading low drive fluid level because one of the sensors was loose , so he played around with it and it stopped. However it would keep running sometimes when I started the engine and shut off after about a minute so he wasn’t sure why .

What is your current oil level and how much water is the raw water pump pumping? There are tests that can be done for the raw water pump whether in or out of the water... but... I'm going to suggest you leave that to your mechanic.

My mechanic came today and bad news ...he found water on the spark plugs ! He said there’s a leak or hole somewhere in the engine and the coolant/ water is leaking into the cylinders The heat exchanger is almost dry! I’m so upset now, I’ve had these problems with the alarm and the engine not running right ever since I brought it to my Sea Ray dealer mechanic almost six months ago for service ! Now what ? Do I have any recourse ?

While it's unclear exactly what the scraping/coughing sound could be (sometimes hard to tell via a forum), based on what you have written I would highly suggest NOT running the engine again - do not even start it up temporarily. Get it to your mechanic.
Click to expand...

See above comments
 
Lazy Daze said:
As Coastr mentioned, that alarm that sounded is VERY important. It is a "turn me off IMMEDIATELY warning or damage may happen". Now, it could be a flaky sensor, but it could also mean your engine is, as mentioned, overheating or very low on oil pressure (both can be catastrophic to the engine). Low drive fluid (your model year may have this) is another reason the alarm may sound. But again, it's a turn me off immediately thing. A minute "or more" is enough time to possibly do damage.

When the mechanic fixed the alarm the first time, what was the reason for the alarm?

What is your current oil level and how much water is the raw water pump pumping? There are tests that can be done for the raw water pump whether in or out of the water... but... I'm going to suggest you leave that to your mechanic.

While it's unclear exactly what the scraping/coughing sound could be (sometimes hard to tell via a forum), based on what you have written I would highly suggest NOT running the engine again - do not even start it up temporarily. Get it to your mechanic.
Click to expand...
You were right...the alarm was trying to tell me something! The mechanic found water in two of the cylinders on the new spark plugs! He said water/ coolant is leaking into the engine through cracks or holes, the heat exchanger was drained ....and the oil is low and is milky with coolant or water in it...ugh ! If the alarm was telling me the engine was overheating, the gauges didn’t indicate any overheating and the oil pressure gauge read normal ...
Any ideas on what happened and can the engine be repaired? Was this from overheating? Blown head gasket? Having it towed in to my SeaRay dealer mechanic, where this all started six months ago
 
Which 2 cylinder had water? If you are fortunate it is an exhaust manifold/riser/elbow problem that may be fixed with the engine intact.
 
Hate to be a pessimist but;
From your description of the 3 month old plugs being fouled, coolant (antifreeze) gone from the heat exchanger, presence of antifreeze and raw water in the two cylinders and mixed in with the oil:
It sounds like a tired motor (fouled plugs) overheated (likely because of a bad exhaust on the raw water side), which resulted in either a blown head gasket or cracked head and it’s time for a new motor.
You might be able to get away with just doing the heads and head gaskets if the lower end turns freely and the block looks good once it’s apart, but that’s a tough call on a 1997 motor.
Probably cheaper and easier to have your mechanic swing in a new long block.
I would also take a good hard look at all the components on the raw water system before reusing any of them on a replacement motor or head replacement.
Might be time for some new gauges too.
 
hottoddie said:
Which 2 cylinder had water? If you are fortunate it is an exhaust manifold/riser/elbow problem that may be fixed with the engine intact.
Click to expand...
I’m looks like cylinders 1&3 so far, towed to the mechanic so will know more soon.
 
The engine is generally tilted with the front higher than the back.

Typically a riser leak will first show as rust stains around the center exhaust ports, and if it leaks enough, most likely moves rearward.

Water in cylinder #1 increases your chances of this being a head gasket/cylinder head/ some other internal issue.

Note the use of words generally, typically, and chances.

These aren't hard and fast rules, just general observations.
 
JVM225 said:
Hate to be a pessimist but;
From your description of the 3 month old plugs being fouled, coolant (antifreeze) gone from the heat exchanger, presence of antifreeze and raw water in the two cylinders and mixed in with the oil:
It sounds like a tired motor (fouled plugs) overheated (likely because of a bad exhaust on the raw water side), which resulted in either a blown head gasket or cracked head and it’s time for a new motor.
You might be able to get away with just doing the heads and head gaskets if the lower end turns freely and the block looks good once it’s apart, but that’s a tough call on a 1997 motor.
Probably cheaper and easier to have your mechanic swing in a new long block.
I would also take a good hard look at all the components on the raw water system before reusing any of them on a replacement motor or head replacement.
Might be time for some new gauges too.
Click to expand...
So I got the bad news that the engine has hydrolock! That’s what the Sea Ray service manager tells me... said the engine needs to be replaced to the tune of $15,000!!! Or he told me they could try to take the engine apart and try to salvage the block and replace the head if it isn’t too damaged , but they can’t quote me a price except to say in the range of $6-8,000....no guarantees until they pull it apart! All this because they didn’t take care of my original problem of the engine not planing out and only could run up to 3000rpm ! They misdiagnosed it as a tune up / change spark plugs, oil and thought they fixed the problem...I’ve told them for the last 6 months that that it wasn’t running right...any suggestions anyone ? $15K sounds steep for a new engine...
 
Captain Jimbo said:
So I got the bad news that the engine has hydrolock! That’s what the Sea Ray service manager tells me... said the engine needs to be replaced to the tune of $15,000!!! Or he told me they could try to take the engine apart and try to salvage the block and replace the head if it isn’t too damaged , but they can’t quote me a price except to say in the range of $6-8,000....no guarantees until they pull it apart! All this because they didn’t take care of my original problem of the engine not planing out and only could run up to 3000rpm ! They misdiagnosed it as a tune up / change spark plugs, oil and thought they fixed the problem...I’ve told them for the last 6 months that that it wasn’t running right...any suggestions anyone ? $15K sounds steep for a new engine...
Click to expand...

You say the Sea Ray service manager. Do you mean dealer?
Anyway, you can get recommendations from other boaters in your area for reliable mechanics at independent boatyards or Marina’s and get a quote for a repower from them.
Look around on websites like MichiganMotorz for new complete turnkey motors with exhaust and other components already on them.
You could start with looking at something like this for reference:
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/vortec-marine-gold-package-1967-current-replacement-p-4172.html
Or get a base engine, buy new exhaust, and use some of your old components if they’re good.
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-vortec-base-marine-engine-1996-current-replacement-p-109.html
There are other places to get new marine engines and you might be able to find one locally and save on shipping.
Mercury makes warrantied re-manufactured engines too and you could check with them for local dealers.
https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us...emanufacturing/plus-series-bravo-sterndrives/
I wouldn’t bother trying to fix what you have because you’re likely to just be throwing good money down a rabbit hole.
A good mechanic will evaluate other things like the transom assembly once the motor is out and he can see them.
Lots of options. Take your time and make it a winter project. You can be all set for next season with a nice reliable boat.
I repowered my old boat (which was in otherwise overall excellent condition) with two brand new motors about 3 or 4 seasons before I sold it and moved up. They were the most trouble free and enjoyable seasons I ever had so it was well worth it.
 
Last edited:
JVM225 said:
You say the Sea Ray service manager. Do you mean dealer?
Anyway, you can get recommendations from other boaters in your area for reliable mechanics at independent boatyards or Marina’s and get a quote for a repower from them.
Look around on websites like MichiganMotorz for new complete turnkey motors with exhaust and other components already on them.
You could start with looking at something like this for reference:
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/vortec-marine-gold-package-1967-current-replacement-p-4172.html
Or get a base engine, buy new exhaust, and use some of your old components if they’re good.
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-vortec-base-marine-engine-1996-current-replacement-p-109.html
There are other places to get new marine engines and you might be able to find one locally and save on shipping.
Mercury makes warrantied re-manufactured engines too and you could check with them for local dealers.
https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us...emanufacturing/plus-series-bravo-sterndrives/
I wouldn’t bother trying to fix what you have because you’re likely to just be throwing good money down a rabbit hole.
A good mechanic will evaluate other things like the transom assembly once the motor is out and he can see them.
Lots of options. Take your time and make it a winter project. You can be all set for next season with a nice reliable boat.
I repowered my old boat (which was in otherwise overall excellent condition) with two brand new motors about 3 or 4 seasons before I sold it and moved up. They were the most trouble free and enjoyable seasons I ever had so it was well worth it.
Click to expand...
Yes it’s the Sea Ray dealer ...I had it towed there, and feel like I’m being held hostage...I will look around, thanks for your advice!
 
REman 5.7 costs 2300-2500 not sure if EFI or carb, then manifolds and risers 700. can you do the work yourself? shouldnt be more than 5k total. I work for Jasper Engines and we make a quality product with a 2 year warranty. There are plenty of other options as well.
10K is outrageous in my opinion but dealers get 150/hr
 
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