Engine & Core Problems, 44 EB
- Thread starter fdoster
- Start date
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,155
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
Here ya go...........:
Engines:
Standard engine was the 6BTA Cummins rated at 300 hp. This is a reasonably low torque engine and gives the 440EB wimpy performance and poor handling around the dock due to smaller wheels. Some owners have had engine problems (overheating, piston galling, valve failure) with the 300 hp Cummins when they run them for extended periods under full or overloaded conditions.
The optional engines were Caterpillar 3116 @ 300 hp and 350 hp and 3208TA's at 375 hp. The 3116 had a few problems common to some 3116 and 3126 base engines having to do with soft valves from an OEM vendor. This did not affect all engines, only a few. Caterpillar repaired all engines that had valve failures. The problem always surfaced in the first 100-125 hours. Cat no longer covers this repair, since any that were going to fail, did so long ago. The 3116 is also subject to fouled aftercoolers due to the improper oil being used. This isn't a "terminal event", just a maintenance need if the previous owner has had his head where the sun doesn't shine and has been using multi-viscosity oils instead of single weight 30 or 40 wt. SAE CF-4 oil.
The 3208 was a great engine, but it has not been in production since the mid-90's. Caterpillar decided to invest future engineering to meet EPA guidelines in the 3100 series engine instead of the older design, 3208. The 3208 does not use replaceable cylinder liners which means that it cannot be overhauled "in frame" and must be removed from the boat for re-boring. The 3116/3126 does use sleeves and the top end can be rebuilt in the boat. Removal of the engine block from a boat like the Express Bridge can be challenge and is expensive since the mechanics are working in your salon over carpet. 3208's do tend to smoke a little on cold starting, where the 3116 has almost no smoke at all.
The 300 hp 3116 and the 300 hp 6BTA are not comparable. The Cat engine has a lot more torque so they are coupled to more prop and they move more water and therefore, handle much better at low speeds around the dock.
Probably the best engine choice in the 44EB is the 350 hp 3116.
Core Problems:
The 440EB has no more or no fewer core problems than any other 15 year old boat with cored construction, so there is not a systemic 44EB core problem. However, on a 15 year old boat, weather, normal flex, ignored maintenance, abuse, physical damage may all play a role in the condition of the coring on any boat you may find. Particular areas to pay attention to are the fiberglass around any bedded component added to or fastened to the deck ----stanchions, horns, windlass, foot switches, running lights, etc.; side ports or windows, engine room vents; the transom around the main zinc studs and any attaching bolts for the swim platform or hydraulic lift; area around the exhaust ports, and all thru-hulls.
Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY a 15 year old boat with diesel engines without having a complete hull survey done by a qualified surveyor who is competent to do moisture checks on the areas mentioned above, and an engine survey done by a servicing dealer for the make engine you are considering. If the boat has Caterpillar engines, request both oil sampling and blow-by tests on the main engines in addition to a search of the available service history and whatever the surveyor normally does or recommends.
A final point is the 1994 was the first year for the EB and is a pretty radical change in bridge boat design. Sea Ray continually improves their boats with small changes or fixes as problems are identified. They rarely "screw the pooch" in boat design, but the chances are that the 1994 is not going to have fixes to some issues that 1995 and later boats have incorporated into them.....and some of them may be important. Before committing to a contract, I would try to see a few different boats to find out what if anything was improved and if the improvements are necessary. One obvious one was adding more power choices in larger output engines to later boats.
Hope that helps...................
Engines:
Standard engine was the 6BTA Cummins rated at 300 hp. This is a reasonably low torque engine and gives the 440EB wimpy performance and poor handling around the dock due to smaller wheels. Some owners have had engine problems (overheating, piston galling, valve failure) with the 300 hp Cummins when they run them for extended periods under full or overloaded conditions.
The optional engines were Caterpillar 3116 @ 300 hp and 350 hp and 3208TA's at 375 hp. The 3116 had a few problems common to some 3116 and 3126 base engines having to do with soft valves from an OEM vendor. This did not affect all engines, only a few. Caterpillar repaired all engines that had valve failures. The problem always surfaced in the first 100-125 hours. Cat no longer covers this repair, since any that were going to fail, did so long ago. The 3116 is also subject to fouled aftercoolers due to the improper oil being used. This isn't a "terminal event", just a maintenance need if the previous owner has had his head where the sun doesn't shine and has been using multi-viscosity oils instead of single weight 30 or 40 wt. SAE CF-4 oil.
The 3208 was a great engine, but it has not been in production since the mid-90's. Caterpillar decided to invest future engineering to meet EPA guidelines in the 3100 series engine instead of the older design, 3208. The 3208 does not use replaceable cylinder liners which means that it cannot be overhauled "in frame" and must be removed from the boat for re-boring. The 3116/3126 does use sleeves and the top end can be rebuilt in the boat. Removal of the engine block from a boat like the Express Bridge can be challenge and is expensive since the mechanics are working in your salon over carpet. 3208's do tend to smoke a little on cold starting, where the 3116 has almost no smoke at all.
The 300 hp 3116 and the 300 hp 6BTA are not comparable. The Cat engine has a lot more torque so they are coupled to more prop and they move more water and therefore, handle much better at low speeds around the dock.
Probably the best engine choice in the 44EB is the 350 hp 3116.
Core Problems:
The 440EB has no more or no fewer core problems than any other 15 year old boat with cored construction, so there is not a systemic 44EB core problem. However, on a 15 year old boat, weather, normal flex, ignored maintenance, abuse, physical damage may all play a role in the condition of the coring on any boat you may find. Particular areas to pay attention to are the fiberglass around any bedded component added to or fastened to the deck ----stanchions, horns, windlass, foot switches, running lights, etc.; side ports or windows, engine room vents; the transom around the main zinc studs and any attaching bolts for the swim platform or hydraulic lift; area around the exhaust ports, and all thru-hulls.
Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY a 15 year old boat with diesel engines without having a complete hull survey done by a qualified surveyor who is competent to do moisture checks on the areas mentioned above, and an engine survey done by a servicing dealer for the make engine you are considering. If the boat has Caterpillar engines, request both oil sampling and blow-by tests on the main engines in addition to a search of the available service history and whatever the surveyor normally does or recommends.
A final point is the 1994 was the first year for the EB and is a pretty radical change in bridge boat design. Sea Ray continually improves their boats with small changes or fixes as problems are identified. They rarely "screw the pooch" in boat design, but the chances are that the 1994 is not going to have fixes to some issues that 1995 and later boats have incorporated into them.....and some of them may be important. Before committing to a contract, I would try to see a few different boats to find out what if anything was improved and if the improvements are necessary. One obvious one was adding more power choices in larger output engines to later boats.
Hope that helps...................
Last edited:
osd9
New Member
That reply should be framed.....:smt038
Uplate
New Member
- Oct 13, 2008
- 977
- Boat Info
- 1998 Sea Ray Sundancer 310
Westebeke 4KW Generator
- Engines
- Twin 5.7 Mercruiser Carbuerated.
Alpha 1 Drives
No doubt.
Where else you going to find this kind of advice/research for free? Few forums I would imagine.
:thumbsup:
vernh59
New Member
Absolutely AWESOME Frank!!!!!!!!!!
mistercomputerman
Well-Known Member
- Jan 6, 2008
- 4,321
- Boat Info
- 410 Sundancer - 2001
- Engines
- Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
By George
I believe that chap Frank knows of what he speaks!
I believe that chap Frank knows of what he speaks!
yworry44
New Member
Did you ever get the 44EB?
I have a 1995 that I have owned since 1999.
I can give you the low down if you want!
I have a 1995 that I have owned since 1999.
I can give you the low down if you want!