Electronics Upgrade Question- Seatalk1/2/ng

[SubCOB]

I don’t get the device net cable. STNG from converter should go directly into axiom with a STNG white black spur cable.

I think the best place for you to post your diagram is on the Raymarine support forum at Raymarine.com. They also have a very good FAQ covering compatibility of legacy autopilots like your S2G with Axiom. Some work and some don’t. I found the RM forum a big help, although they can be difficult. BTW if you do use the forum, it is less of a forum, and closer to an email exchange between you and rm customer service with non participating cc parties listening in.

I’m going to register for the site now. As far as the deviceNet cable- I thought the same thing. But I confirmed it by reading the FAQs on the Raymarine site. Only the pro has the STng connector- mine has the combo pwr/deviceNet dongle and there is an adapter to mate it to STng. This Raymarine crap is confusing.

 

[SubCOB]

I think the GPS position from the Axiom will pass through the converter. I have a similar setup and I get position to my AP type 300 and on to my VFH via Seatalk 1/NEMA0183.

This is exactly what I am hoping for

 

[SubCOB]

If your boat had a single Navigator with a single Raymarine E120 then there should have been two GPS receivers; one for the SR Navigator system and one for the Raymarine equipment. The Navigator GPS is NMEA0183 and the Raymarine is either NMEA0183 or Seatalk1. I would recommend to use neither and get a new NG/NMEA2000 compliant GPS receiver and be done with it.

I Think you are right. There are two GPS pucks on the hard top, and the literature that came with the boat indicates there is a Raystar 120? Only problem is I can't for the life of me see where it would be connected. I have accounted for all the ST and NMEA 0183 cables going between things.
I plan on adding a new GPS as soon as I get the boat back to its new home, but right now I just need it to work for the upcoming trip.

 

[370Dancer]

Here is my setup. Pretty similar except my backbone to the engine room for the engine monitoring.
For ST, I just daisy chained them together.
The Raymarine 120 GPS puck came in 2 flavors. Seatalk, or NMEA 183. Look at the wire colors at the end. Also, the top of the GPS says what it is, I think. Been many years since I looked at it.

 

[dtfeld]

It’s not connected yet- I wanted to make sure the legacy stuff worked after I pulled out the Navigator. This is how I plan on hooking it up:View attachment 80863

I haven’t looked too carefully, but this should work. The details would involve getting the right cables/lengths.

edit- the radar connected the e120 will not be viewable on the network.

Adding Additional axioms/radar would involve a RayNet connection, via an HS5. All data should pass through.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I’m going to register for the site now. ...This Raymarine crap is confusing.

You have found the root of the problem.

 

[SubCOB]

SUCCESS! Installed the Axiom today along with the STng converter per the diagram I posted earlier- only difference is I left the SR navigator “black box” installed with the original Sea Ray transducer and GPS still connected. The Axiom is getting ALL data from the original equipment! Including depth! Eventually I will install a new GPS receiver and a pair of RV transducers to take advantage of the Axiom and then remove the rest of the SR navigator, but for now it’s running better than I had hoped. Couldn’t believe I’m actually getting depth. Many said it wouldn’t work, but it does!

 

[dtfeld]

Congrats on the install. You’ll like the Axiom Series. The LH3 firmware isn’t completely fleshed out, but RM is actively updating and adding features.

RM networking can be a little confusing, but I have found that RM has thought out the migration paths pretty well, and you can do a phased implementation fairly easily keeping that that works and upgrading what you need.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

I am about to hook up my RS 150 GPS antenna to my gs165 via a STNG 5 way connector block that is the central part of the STNG starter kit. The question is. do I need to provide power to the connector block to power the antenna or will power to the antenna be provided by the gs165 NEMA 2000 port I'm connecting the antenna to? I'm not clear as to whether or not I will need to use the Ray Net ports to eventually integrate the NEMA 0183 data from the Diesel View or will all the data be delivered thru the STNG NEMA 2000 system. It would be nice if there was a good instruction manual on this stuff. I sure appreciate all of the data available on this site that TTMOTT and others have provided and its getting a little clearer each day as to the direction I need to go but boy, what a chore. It seems like there would be a market for a manual or app written by an installer that would allow you to input all of your equipment you are trying to integrate and out puts a parts list of all of the adapters, cables, terminators ect you need to make it all work. Perhaps there are just too many variants.
Thanks to all that share their experience and OJT expertise.
Carpe Diem

 

[SubCOB]

Here is my final wiring diagram for now. (I picked up a 12” Axiom but I’m not going to install it until I upgrade my radar) From what I have read, the STng backbone requires its own separate power source. If you connect an AP, you have to disconnect the red wire from the ST1 cable. Not sure why, but it works.

 

[Jaws]

I am going through an upgrade situation too, but instead I am changing Classic E screens to Axiom & Axiom Pro S. In constructing the new system I am using the same "5 Way STNG connectors" A06064, but three of them. Also two HS5 switches for the network. I was under the impression that the 5 way connectors must be powered, either independently (and balancing the draw) or through an Evolution autopilot ACU-200 (or higher). I have chosen the former. My AR200 GPS/stabilizer is powered through the STNG blocks. The screens are powered independently but linked to both the STNG system with A06075 adapters and also to the (powered) RayNet HS5 switches. I have abandoned the old NMEA 0183 components.
I have found the Raymarine forum to be excellent. All questions are answered within a day by excellent moderators. So between CSR and Raymarine Forum, I have been able to get the answers so far. Good luck on your project!

 

[Carpediem44DB]

I am going through an upgrade situation too, but instead I am changing Classic E screens to Axiom & Axiom Pro S. In constructing the new system I am using the same "5 Way STNG connectors" A06064, but three of them. Also two HS5 switches for the network. I was under the impression that the 5 way connectors must be powered, either independently (and balancing the draw) or through an Evolution autopilot ACU-200 (or higher). I have chosen the former. My AR200 GPS/stabilizer is powered through the STNG blocks. The screens are powered independently but linked to both the STNG system with A06075 adapters and also to the (powered) RayNet HS5 switches. I have abandoned the old NMEA 0183 components.
I have found the Raymarine forum to be excellent. All questions are answered within a day by excellent moderators. So between CSR and Raymarine Forum, I have been able to get the answers so far. Good luck on your project!

Thanks, I'm going to the boat now to install the STNG connector and clean up my power distribution buss. Ill post my results. I have yet to consult the Raymarine forum. Between BWM, Corvette, Ram, Yacht Forum and CSR I'm getting kinda forumed out!

 

[Henry Boyd]

Power - STNG networks like nmea2000 are powered. The specifics of the situation are the answer. There can only be one power connection to the network. Look at the attached photo:

This is of two converter blocks, there is an additional nmea2000 backbone out of view. From the left is a blue terminating resistor. There needs to be two, one on each extreme end. There is a matching resistor on the extreme end of the nmea2000 backbone.

The next port with the white tracer wire and white cap is a spur cable. It is connecting a device

Raymarine color codes the cables. Ray cables of different colors are different from one another, unlike nmea2000 where all cables are the same. Same color wire tracer to cap, with two exceptions. One, the yellow cap takes a white wire that has been mechanically attached to a nmea0183 device. In our case a raystar 125 gps. The other exception is a red tracer (power connection) that goes to a white port.

The blue ports and tracers are to connect the connection blocks, or other networks. When two networks are connected there still can only be one power tap. That may not work with something like mine a STNG <> nmea2000 connection. In that case a special cable needs to be created that does not pass power from one to the other. The resistors are on the data circuit, so these need to be one on each far end regardless of the type of network.

With my setup everything on nmea2000 can be seen on STNG and vice verse.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Well I feel like I've got some momentum finally on this networking deal. I installed the STNG starter kit which consists of a five way STNG connector block. I added power to it from the main electronics buss and then ran a spur cable to the gs165 MFD and to the new RS 150 GPS antenna, so now I have GPS to my MFD. I am getting Depth data from the original transducer to the MFD thru the 0183 connection via a Raymarine E85001 Interface which has Seatalk connections that used to connect to the E120. I am wondering if I can use this to convert 0183 to Seatalk and then connect to a Seatalk > STNG converter?
Has anyone seen this done? my goal is to see the engine data on the MFD thru the 0183 out of the VV.
Carpe Diem

 

[Henry Boyd]

CD,

if your VV is the same vintage as the one on my 280, the nmea0183 connection is one way with data (nav related) flowing into the VV. You would need export to get engine info on the Raymarine.

In any event, You would be better off using the STNG Raymarine ECI-100 engine gateway connected directly to the engines (if it supports your engines). You have VesselView, so the electronic data is there even though VV won’t export it. If the ECI-100 won’t work there are a number of generic devices that might although that would require building a mini nmea2000 network attached to the STNG. I would imagine Cummins has their own interface device as well.

The main difference between STNG and nmea 2000 is that STNG cabling is built with extra wires to support SeaTalk devices, so it’s just a case of getting the right connector hardware.

In my case we have a Volvo gateway that feeds the nmea2000 net that in turn feeds a Garmin 7608 that is a dedicated engine display and a Fusion stereo, as well as the STNG net that currently feeds engine data to the two E120W displays (soon to be replaced with twin Axiom Pros). Gps and depth data in turn come out of the STNG net into the nmea2000 to the Garmin.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

CD,

if your VV is the same vintage as the one on my 280, the nmea0183 connection is one way with data (nav related) flowing into the VV. You would need export to get engine info on the Raymarine.

In any event, You would be better off using the STNG Raymarine ECI-100 engine gateway connected directly to the engines (if it supports your engines). You have VesselView, so the electronic data is there even though VV won’t export it. If the ECI-100 won’t work there are a number of generic devices that might although that would require building a mini nmea2000 network attached to the STNG. I would imagine Cummins has their own interface device as well.

The main difference between STNG and nmea 2000 is that STNG cabling is built with extra wires to support SeaTalk devices, so it’s just a case of getting the right connector hardware.

In my case we have a Volvo gateway that feeds the nmea2000 net that in turn feeds a Garmin 7608 that is a dedicated engine display and a Fusion stereo, as well as the STNG net that currently feeds engine data to the two E120W displays (soon to be replaced with twin Axiom Pros). Gps and depth data in turn come out of the STNG net into the nmea2000 to the Garmin.

Thanks Henry, I ultimately figured that I would run a back bone up from the engine room thru the salon to eventually integrate the entire boat. Ill look into what Smart Craft has to offer as an interface. I appreciate the input.
CD

 

[ttmott]

Thanks Henry, I ultimately figured that I would run a back bone up from the engine room thru the salon to eventually integrate the entire boat. Ill look into what Smart Craft has to offer as an interface. I appreciate the input.
CD

Before you get too carried away there are a couple of avenues to get the engine data onto a NMEA 2000 / SeatalkNG network.

If you have a VV7 the NMEA2000 port on the back has all of the engine data available including any Cummins error messages. However, at least in the case of my Garmin MFD's it only indicates a fault occurred and the log time for the fault. My VV7, however, shows the fault code and if the fault can be cleared or is a terminal condition.

Or, you can get the engine data from the Smartcraft harness as J1939 data from pins G and H which are CAN 2 of the Smartcraft data system. Install Maretron J2K100 (J1939 to NMEA 2000) converters on the port and starboard Smartcraft J-boxes under the helm both wired only the pins G and H on those J-boxes and you will get all of the Cummins engine data converted to NMEA 2000. The J2K100 on the Port engine needs to be set as source address of 0 and starboard as 1; but all of this is in the Maretron user manual. The down side is you need another device like a Maretron display or Maretron's PC software to program their end devices.

Or, you can get a couple of the Mercury Smartcraft NMEA 2000 converters but it seems from various reports these are tricky to use in the Cummins applications.
These two drawings are for the QSM engines but from a Smartcraft aspect should be the same for yours:

 

[Henry Boyd]

Before you get too carried away there are a couple of avenues to get the engine data onto a NMEA 2000 / SeatalkNG network.

If you have a VV7 the NMEA2000 port on the back has all of the engine data available including any Cummins error messages. However, at least in the case of my Garmin MFD's it only indicates a fault occurred and the log time for the fault. My VV7, however, shows the fault code and if the fault can be cleared or is a terminal condition.

Or, you can get the engine data from the Smartcraft harness as J1939 data from pins G and H which are CAN 2 of the Smartcraft data system. Install Maretron J2K100 (J1939 to NMEA 2000) converters on the port and starboard Smartcraft J-boxes under the helm both wired only the pins G and H on those J-boxes and you will get all of the Cummins engine data converted to NMEA 2000. The J2K100 on the Port engine needs to be set as source address of 0 and starboard as 1; but all of this is in the Maretron user manual. The down side is you need another device like a Maretron display or Maretron's PC software to program their end devices.

Or, you can get a couple of the Mercury Smartcraft NMEA 2000 converters but it seems from various reports these are tricky to use in the Cummins applications.
These two drawings are for the QSM engines but from a Smartcraft aspect should be the same for yours:
View attachment 81303
View attachment 81302

Huh, I’d be careful about the build your own cable plan. Smartcraft is a 5vdc system, STNG /nmea2000 is 12vdc. Mix something up and expensive engine electronics turn to toast.

Yes, a Smartcraft solution could be effective, all of my Smartcraft info is limited to gas engines, so I’d rather not expound on areas outside of my knowledge.

Yacht devices make a series of engine gateways with adapter cables for the engine electronics connection. The plus side is the make output connectors in either DeviceNet or Raymarine STNG. I note that they have a Cummins engine adapter cable.

 

[ttmott]

Huh, I’d be careful about the build your own cable plan. Smartcraft is a 5vdc system, STNG /nmea2000 is 12vdc. Mix something up and expensive engine electronics turn to toast.

Yes, a Smartcraft solution could be effective, all of my Smartcraft info is limited to gas engines, so I’d rather not expound on areas outside of my knowledge.

Yacht devices make a series of engine gateways with adapter cables for the engine electronics connection. The plus side is the make output connectors in either DeviceNet or Raymarine STNG. I note that they have a Cummins engine adapter cable.

Henry - I don't understand your first comment. Is there something not clear in what I posted? These are data and not power connections....
Tom

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Thanks for the input and guidance Tom and Henry. Looks like I'm close to getting where I need to be. I would like to avoid for now running the Backbone all the way from the engine room if I can tie into the helm harness. I still have the original version of Smart Craft DV.
Cheers CD