Electrical question for shower sumps

[drprunner]

I have a 1997 400 Sundancer. The shower sump backed up and I couldn't get it to run, so I replaced. The new pump won't run either, so I tried the aft shower pump and that won't run either. I have 3 pumps in the compartment, 2 shower sump pumps and 1 bilge pump, and none of them will run. I checked the power and there is none. I checked the ground wire and it is fine. I can't figure out what happened to the positive line. It seems like it must be a fuse or circuit breaker, but I can't find any tripped. I've attached 2 pictures, 1 of the compartment with the pumps, and 1 of the only breaker panel that had the word "sump" on one of the breakers, but I can't tell if the breaker is tripped or bad. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[hottoddie]

In my older 390 there are several breakers in the engine room. I know the power for the sump and bilge pumps comes from those breakers.

 

[Express 390]

I have a 1997 400 Sundancer. The shower sump backed up and I couldn't get it to run, so I replaced. The new pump won't run either, so I tried the aft shower pump and that won't run either. I have 3 pumps in the compartment, 2 shower sump pumps and 1 bilge pump, and none of them will run. I checked the power and there is none. I checked the ground wire and it is fine. I can't figure out what happened to the positive line. It seems like it must be a fuse or circuit breaker, but I can't find any tripped. I've attached 2 pictures, 1 of the compartment with the pumps, and 1 of the only breaker panel that had the word "sump" on one of the breakers, but I can't tell if the breaker is tripped or bad. Any help would be much appreciated. View attachment 79253View attachment 79252

Your going to have to get a voltage tester start at the pump and trace the line back to where you find power

 

[Henry Boyd]

Not to be harsh, but the photos show wire nuts and sloppy wiring. The wire nut is the wrong connector for any application where there is motion, vibration and moisture. Ok in your house, bad for your boat, car or trailer. These can also be mis-installed so that mechanically the wires are connected but are not making contact.

The wiring is definitely not the way it left the Sea Ray factory, so right out of the gate it’s suspect because you don’t know what a prior owner did. Sloppy wiring makes it hard to trace what is connected to where. If you can’t look at a wiring job and immediately understand the wiring layout you are sunk before you begin. It is entirely possible there is a good hot wire in there but it is just not properly connected.

Pull out the wire nuts and organize the wiring. Redo these with heat shrink butt connectors of the right size. Then start looking for in-line fuses.

 

[Korkie]

+1 on Henrys' post. I then use liquid tape over the connection along with a heat shrink sleeve as the final cover. Overkill? - probably, but have never had a connection get wet, corrode or come apart.

 

[Skip Boyer]

As has been my experience, previous ownership often equals unknown changes to the electrical system. I would first make sure ALL the breakers are turned on. I have found some rather creative wiring jobs before. (Stove breaker used for an add on A/C unit and stove connection moved to the dish washer breaker) Why this was done is beyond me but thats the way i found it. Of course nothing was relabeled. Also defiantly agree with Henry, clean up that wiring mess and save yourself a major headache on a nice summer evening when its time for relaxing instead of dealing with a backed up shower sump.

 

[Searay340]

Anyone ever install some type of wireless warning device in the sump box? Maybe something that indicates the water level in the box is higher than the float switch? FYI, I use the shower a lot in my boat so I do an inspection every few weeks on my sump box - clean, check connections, etc, but would love a warning system.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Anyone ever install some type of wireless warning device in the sump box? Maybe something that indicates the water level in the box is higher than the float switch? FYI, I use the shower a lot in my boat so I do an inspection every few weeks on my sump box - clean, check connections, etc, but would love a warning system.

I’ve seen wireless bilge warning sensors in literature for boat security systems (GOST?). However, I wonder how useful an in sump box sensor would be. After all, every time you use the shower it will go off.

We kind of have the opposite problem. Our sump doesn’t completely empty and the right combination of wind and waves will make it cycle that at night is, well annoying.

 

[Searay340]

Thinking more of a warning light?

 

[Stee6043]

Hey OP - I don't know if this has been mentioned but there is also a bank of fuses at your helm. Drop the panel and you'll see another set. Yet another set exists on the bulkhead inside that compartment but I'm pretty sure those fuses are all for the items at the helm. Wouldn't hurt to check both though.

Hopefully you're able to take the feedback above on wiring as it's intended. Your wiring job, as-is, is 1000times better than the PO of my boat had. I had wires twisted together, wrapped in electrical tape and left inside the sump. It actually made me laugh when I discovered it. Good times.

 

[drprunner]

Not to be harsh, but the photos show wire nuts and sloppy wiring. The wire nut is the wrong connector for any application where there is motion, vibration and moisture. Ok in your house, bad for your boat, car or trailer. These can also be mis-installed so that mechanically the wires are connected but are not making contact.

The wiring is definitely not the way it left the Sea Ray factory, so right out of the gate it’s suspect because you don’t know what a prior owner did. Sloppy wiring makes it hard to trace what is connected to where. If you can’t look at a wiring job and immediately understand the wiring layout you are sunk before you begin. It is entirely possible there is a good hot wire in there but it is just not properly connected.

Pull out the wire nuts and organize the wiring. Redo these with heat shrink butt connectors of the right size. Then start looking for in-line fuses.

The wiring job you see in the photo is not how the actual wiring is. The photo shows my wiring as I'm trying to debug what's going on, i'ts only temporary until I have it fixed. My boat will never leave the dock with this wiring. Also, the "wire nut" I'm using is solely so I don't forget what is wired to what. It's kind of funny you actually thought that was the real wiring Also, I've confirmed there is not a good hot wire.

 

[Lazy Daze]

When you've been around boats long enough - and seen enough pre-owned boats - what you showed in that picture could very well have been the problem. Without you stating that it is simply temporary, the most logical assumption would be that the wiring is the culprit.

The second picture - the angle is bad and the pic is blurry and can't really see the labels. But note the mention above about possible other locations for fuses/breakers. You can also look through your owner's manual - that would give the electrical schematics and you can follow that.

But, to answer your question about checking a breaker... typically they get "soft" and don't really reset cleanly - you can usually feel that. But you can double check by removing the panel and checking for + on both sides of the breaker circuit.

 

[drprunner]

When you've been around boats long enough - and seen enough pre-owned boats - what you showed in that picture could very well have been the problem. Without you stating that it is simply temporary, the most logical assumption would be that the wiring is the culprit.

The second picture - the angle is bad and the pic is blurry and can't really see the labels. But note the mention above about possible other locations for fuses/breakers. You can also look through your owner's manual - that would give the electrical schematics and you can follow that.

But, to answer your question about checking a breaker... typically they get "soft" and don't really reset cleanly - you can usually feel that. But you can double check by removing the panel and checking for + on both sides of the breaker circuit.

Agree with everything you said I found the problem, it was a "soft" Carling breaker in the panel from the second picture. Ordered a new one $35 delivered. Thanks for the help.