Electric Head Backfills with cabin odor

D

dimnddavid

New Member
Sep 11, 2011
29
Barrington, RI
Boat Info
1995 270 Sundancer
Engines
Single 454 Mercruiser, Bravo III
Electric Flush Toilet Backfills with Wastewater/ Cabin Odor Problem

I'm trying to get through all of my springtime projects before splashing the boat, and the toilet and waste system is next on the list. I bought the boat last summer and the ELECTRIC toilet with MACERATOR would slowly fill up with brown wastewater after you stopped flushing. I definitely flushed this thing long enough to make sure that there was nothing left in the lines, but it keeps coming back. The toilet uses raw seawater but I'm pretty confident that is not what I'm seeing. Even with the tank almost empty (except for some antifreeze added for the winter) I looked in the toilet and there is a hint of dirty water at the very bottom of it. I don't have any experience with this and I'm hoping I can get some advice as to how to fix this system. Is the toilet the source of this problem or are there any one-way valves or other parts of the system that could cause backfilling? I've seen toilet re-build kits out there; would this solve my problem without having to buy a new toilet? Any advice is appreciated! I also assume this is source #1 of my foul cabin odor.I suspect that source #2 is the waste pipe going to the holding tank on the starboard side of the boat. I was tinkering around in the mid berth and opened the cabinets where the pipe goes through, and it had a slight foul smell in there. This was just the other day with the tank having been rinsed last fall with just some antifreeze to winterize the system, so I was very surprised to notice the foul odor. I've heard about the smell permeating through the hoses, but I assumed there would be some visual indication of this as well. On the outside the white hoses look as if they are brand new, but I'm assuming they are as old as the boat (1995). Could odor be permeating through hoses even though they have no outward signs of wear?Thanks in advance!
 
Last edited:
Sounds like the holding tank vent/filter is stopped up. There is usually an inline filter mounted to, or near the top of the tank with a vent hose going to the vent.
 
Last edited:
Jim, are you talking about changing the filter to solve both the odor and the toilet backfilling issues? I can see how that might be one source for the odor issue, but I'd be surprised if that has anything to do with the toilet backfilling with water; but I'll definitely look into it.
 
The back filling is odd, but I could see where a plugged vent would force the air back through the system to escape. There are duck-bill valves in the system that could also be defective but I would check the vent components first.
 
JimG said:
Yea, I'm assuming manual pump.
Click to expand...

Actually, its an electric flush with a macerator as far as I know... There is a panel on the side with a push-button to flush and a motor does all the work. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought I was referring to that in the title of my thread. Is there something else that an "electric head" would refer to that I'm not understanding here?
 
dimnddavid said:
Actually, its an electric flush with a macerator as far as I know... There is a panel on the side with a push-button to flush and a motor does all the work. Forgive my ignorance, but I thought I was referring to that in the title of my thread. Is there something else that an "electric head" would refer to that I'm not understanding here?
Click to expand...

No! You are correct... my/our bad!

So yes, still sound like a plugged vent to me.
 
I'm with Mike Blake - can't give a good answer unless we know what type of toilet it is. It doesn't sound like a vacuflush. dimnddavid - if this is not a vacuflush then your 'brown water' is probably just seawater. Most non-vacuflush toilets draw in seawater when you flush. And if left standing long enough, seawater can develop a smell of it's own.

Still good advice to replace the filter though.
 
MLauman/Mike Blake - Are you guys asking what BRAND of toilet this is? I thought that having "Electric Head" in the original title and mentioning that it has a macerator in the original post would have told people enough info to determine that it was an electric-flushing toilet with a macerator, but evidently I wasn't clear enough. I've been reading posts for a long time on this forum and see how annoying it is when people don't fully describe their problem or their equipment, so I tried very hard to avoid doing the same thing. I'll try harder next time! :smt001

I don't know the brand if that's what you're looking for, but I can check on it... The toilet does fill with raw seawater when flushed, but what I'm referring to is legit wastewater coming back into the bowl. It even looks like some of the remnants of the tank have trickled back into the bowl over the past couple months of the boat being laid up in my backyard. I appreciate the advice about the filter, and I will definitely replace that. I was hoping that removing and rebuilding the toilet would be enough, but it sounds like there could be some duckbill valves elsewhere in the system? I think I'm still going to rebuild the toilet though... I'd appreciate any feedback from anyone who has rebuilt a similar toilet on what I can expect from this job, and some tips on how to avoid certain pitfalls.
 
Last edited:
I had an electric head (raw water, electric flushing) on my last boat ('95 290) and after trying many of the things suggested by a woman who at the time was the expert on marine heads on this site, gave up trying to get rid of the smell. The only thing I did not try was replacing the waste hose all the way back to the holding tank. This hose was probably the culprit (as she suggested/letting odors through the hose walls), but getting the old hose out was going to be too big a job and I didn't know for certain it would fix the smell. On hot days, the odor was exceptionally bad. But I was in sea water and in a particularly warm climate. I imagine if you were in a fresh water lake and/or a climate with more moderate temperatures, it wouldn't be as bad. The odor was one of the main reasons I traded up to a boat with Vacuflush. I've never had an odor problem since. As for the charcoal filter on the vent, I've found that even with the Vacuflush, that using a little extra water when flushing goes a long way to keeping the odor down from the holding tank and lessens the need to change the filter as often.
 
Last edited:
"Joker Valve" - Appropriate name! The joke is on me every time I flush the toilet!

So the vacuflush system doesn't use raw water? Is it hooked up to the regular fresh water tank on the boat? I always thought the electric flush was an upgrade from a vacuflush system, but its starting to sound like a more troublesome system as a whole.

Sadler I love the "Hey Babe"! I also bought the floscan for my boat but I haven't started the install yet. How nimble is that 290 with a single engine? I was already wishing my 270 had just a tiny bit more power to it, but after dealing with the maintanence on just one I/O system I appreciate not having a second to deal with!
 
sr330daguy said:
You probably have a Jabsco head.Your Joker valve needs to be replaced.It's a one way valve that prevents flow back.
http://www.go2marine.com/evFrameset.jsp?id=51021
Click to expand...


This^^^^.

I have the same head in my boat. Simple fix. Replace the joker valve. If you're standing in front of the head, look to the right down low for the discharge hose. Remove the hose and there are 3 phillips head screws. Remove the hose barb and the joker valve is contained within the barb itself.

Tip - Replace the lines with Trident 101 series hose. The hose is 1" coming out of the head. I believe shortly after the head the hose should transition to 1.5" for the majority of the run to the holding tank. I would also put a 1" pvc or similar style ball valve within 6" of the joker valve. This way if you ever need to replace the joker valve or do work on the head, you can minimize your mess by isolating the line. Replace the raw line with black engine exhaust hose that is rated for under the water line use.

Doug
 
dimnddavid said:
"Joker Valve" - Appropriate name! The joke is on me every time I flush the toilet!

So the vacuflush system doesn't use raw water? Is it hooked up to the regular fresh water tank on the boat? I always thought the electric flush was an upgrade from a vacuflush system, but its starting to sound like a more troublesome system as a whole.

Sadler I love the "Hey Babe"! I also bought the floscan for my boat but I haven't started the install yet. How nimble is that 290 with a single engine? I was already wishing my 270 had just a tiny bit more power to it, but after dealing with the maintanence on just one I/O system I appreciate not having a second to deal with!
Click to expand...

Correct, the Vacuflush uses a small amount of fresh water. In my opinion it's the way to go.

Thanks David, I know this is off topic, but since you asked: Hey Babe has almost been traded up several times, but I always come back to the simplicity and low running cost and she has plenty of room for two people which is all I mostly carry. She's not a dragster, but has plenty of power, topping out at 40 mph and easily cruises at 28-30 mph. I've never had any issues with planning, and although single engine handling is definitely not as easy, once you get the knack, you can dock fine. I sea trialed the twin engine version of my boat, and she docked like a dream, but I found the noise, vibration, and extra work of dealing with two throttles/engines not worth it for me. Those twins were also going to be a pretty good challenge as far as access. Also, if you do a weight calculation, you find that two stern drives and two engines weigh more, making the boat sit lower in the water at the back. Just my preference. Also, I could never maintain two of everything. I barely keep up with one! Your 95 270 is a great boat in my opinion, with low center of gravity, great layout, and easy access to the important things. It's the boat I would have gotten if my family of four had not been a consideration when I bought. But, the extra room on the 290 is a real bonus. Trailering though is a little hairy since I'm overwide.

Now back to marine heads...Doug and the others sound like they know how to make these heads work right.
 
Last edited:
douglee25 said:
This^^^^.

I have the same head in my boat. Simple fix. Replace the joker valve. If you're standing in front of the head, look to the right down low for the discharge hose. Remove the hose and there are 3 phillips head screws. Remove the hose barb and the joker valve is contained within the barb itself.

Tip - Replace the lines with Trident 101 series hose. The hose is 1" coming out of the head. I believe shortly after the head the hose should transition to 1.5" for the majority of the run to the holding tank. I would also put a 1" pvc or similar style ball valve within 6" of the joker valve. This way if you ever need to replace the joker valve or do work on the head, you can minimize your mess by isolating the line. Replace the raw line with black engine exhaust hose that is rated for under the water line use.

Doug
Click to expand...

Great advice Doug, thanks! I was previously figuring on just getting a rebuild kit for the whole toilet, but this sounds like a much more simple procedure, so I'm not sure if doing the whole thing is worth it anymore. I really like the idea of installing the ball valve on the line to reduce mess. I figure this time around I'll flush a few gallons of fresh, clean water through the system and then disconnect the hose. Hopefully I wont get any "surprises" by doing that... Any other mess-reducing tips?
 
My only other piece of advice is to just put a large towel under the toilet before pulling that line off. Whatever is left in the bowl plus whatever is left in that hose will come out onto the head floor.

Every couple of years the head will begin to produce the same symptoms. That's what you know it's time to replace the joker valve. I have had the bowl fill up substantially after the joker valve began to fail and when running the boat, the water began to slosh out. With the valve in place, it's a simple twist and you avoid the whole mess.

Doug
 
I second the joker valve. Common problem with it back washing :D

As far as the smell goes...google geo method. I tried it a couple of years back and it seems to work well.
Basically you pour 2 cups of calgon powdered water softner and 1 cup of powdered laundry detergent in an old milk jug and fill it with hot water and shake to disolve. Pour it in your empty holding tank and use it as normal. After a couple of times of filling and emptying it out, the smell, at least on my boat is almost non existant.
I use it about every other fill.

Jeff
 
dimnddavid said:
" So the vacuflush system doesn't use raw water? Is it hooked up to the regular fresh water tank on the boat? I always thought the electric flush was an upgrade from a vacuflush system, but its starting to sound like a more troublesome system as a whole.QUOTE]

My last boat had an electric head and it was a great improvement on my previous manual pump head. My current boat uses vacuflush and it is nicer still, being much quieter (no blender sound in the middle of the night), uses less water to flush so the holding tank will hold more flushes (nice when anchoring), and uses potable water which eliminates fowl odor that can develop from using the surrounding sea water. Using potable water can also be a problem though - especially if you run out of potable water... things can pile up in a hurry!!

Sounds like you found out what your problem was. It sounds easy enough that you could probably fix it while holding your breath!
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,120
Messages
1,426,604
Members
61,037
Latest member
wojozobl
Back
Top