!@#$%&*!@#$%^&* eisenglass panels

Chris Nowell

Chris Nowell

Active Member
Nov 28, 2011
1,520
Lake Okanagan, Kelowna B.C.
Boat Info
'05 622 Hardtop w Alaska Bulkhead, 270 Mercury Marine sport inflatable, pulled by a 6.0L Silverado
Engines
4.3 MPI Merc w Alpha I drive, 5 hp 4 stroke Merc aux.
It was supposed to be splash time this morning!!!!!:smt013 Instead we just spent the four hours at the storage yard, in the pouring rain, trying to get the stupid rubber into the tracks so we could attach the windows to the top:smt021:smt013. If they're this stupid and difficult to install we'll NEVER get any time to use the darn boat on the days when it isn't raining. By the time we get the top up and the windows attached we'll be too old and senile to go anywhere:smt089 I think the best solution is to wait for the top shop to open on Tuesday and have them put the "old fashioned" snaps on to replace that stupid !@#$%^&*!@#$%^&* rubber stuff.:smt021. I'd like to know if everyone has the same problem with this system. Our boat is a 2000 240 DA but it doesn't look like the eisenglass and the side curtains have ever been used. (hmmmmm, maybe that's why they've never been used eh?)

Thanx for the ears.
 
I like snaps better also. I believe they make a snap that slides in the channel and then you just need the snaps on the panels.
i do like how the rubber looks once I finally get it installed. I am actually getting pretty good at it now.
 
I agree that once you know the trick to installing the rubber, it seals better than the snaps IMHO
 
I had a 2002 240DA with the same set up and I feel your pain. What a total train wreck it was to try and get the rubber strip to slide in the windshield rail. I started using some silicone on the rubber and that seemed to help but it was still a cluster ##$%. If a rain storm came up quickly I just put towels over the dash and tried to stay dry under the canvas. My 2008 260DA has an entirely different set up with snaps and it is much easier and faster to set up. It may be worth your sanity to have the rubber strip replaced with snaps.
 
alwhite00 said:
I like snaps better also. I believe they make a snap that slides in the channel and then you just need the snaps on the panels.
i do like how the rubber looks once I finally get it installed. I am actually getting pretty good at it now.
Click to expand...

Thanx alwhite00. Man was I pi$$ed off with that stuff. A further search has indicated a lubricant would help as it is still quite cold here and the stuff has to be warm and pliable. I think with a little perseverance, lots of Margaritas, some 303 lubricant and some dish soap we'll get it on. We're heading out there now to try it again after cancelling our plans for the rest of the day.
 
Chris
When you can do it when the sun is out and the eisenglass is warm it's much easier and then, leave it up for awhile. I can single handedly get mine installed in about 5 mins including the rubber seal on the windshield. My canvas has has the eisenglass replaced when we bought the boat, but the rest of the canvas is 14 years old now. It's due for replacement as many seams and stitches have come loose.
 
How cold was the glass...and the air this morning? They must be warm to install
 
Being Moored, I never remove the front, or the first sides. The rear sides, we removed every time, they were a PIA to replace after sitting down in the saloon for the day. First jobe I did, was have an upholsterer make me new sides out of sunbrella. Oh and I have snaps . If I needed to keep eisenglass, like you probably do because of cold days, I would have a border of canvas around 6" or more particularly on the bottom, to allow more strecth.
 
This is how I do the glass. First I put in the center front using the zipper then the two sides just using the zippers.

Then I do the rubber track. The bimini top holds the bottom in the rail.

The sides go in the same way zippers first then track. Some times I have to loosen the aft bimini down poles to get the front enough slack to get the zippers in place.
 
I love the rubber / track system. As some others have stated, warmth helps, but what works best for me is to loosen/ raise the aft camper poles. For me that's 2 poles on each side. Get all of the zippers started. Then I install starting at the front. Once the front panels are in, reset the poles into camper position & finish with the snaps at the stern.
 
I agree with you, the fellow who designed this system was not a boater!! It may have seemed like a great idea on the "drawing board" but the real world out on the water with threatening weather coming at you makes installation troublesome. If you can do it in a warm building with elevated walkways around the boat it would seem like a great system. That is probably where it was developed, inside at the factory. It does seal very nicely on the front windshield but you need lots of extra time to do a good job. I have checked into it on some forums and canvas shops and it seems there are no inserts to ad snaps to the frame!! Also drilling into the glass will crack it. There seems to be no solution except learn to live with this horrible idea. If anyone has solved it, please post your successful idea with pictures!
 
Hey Everyone, thanx for all the responses and advice. We finally finished getting the whole top on last night. The rubber was so cold that it wasn't flexing enough to go into the tracks (about 54 F yesterday). We wiped each track and rubber insert down with "303 protectant" (kinda like "Armourall) and it snapped in as best as it will. To get the side curtains to zipper up we had to remove the pins in the frame work and let the posts hang free. Once all the zippers were done up we re attached the frame posts. The last two where darn nearly impossible because the material was so tight from never being used. We thought for sure that something was going to tear or come apart. In hind sight I guess a screamin' hot day would have allowed the rubber to be pliable and the "Sunbrella" material to expand enough to get it all together without the use of pry bars and so much profanity. Of course, it's obviously going to be on the cool side if one needs to have a top and sides up in the first place. I doubt very much if the front and front sides are ever going to be removed on this boat now. I think they would have made life a lot easier if they'd have just made the darn thing a hardtop in the first place. Now it's time to clean the cockpit area 'cause it was pouring rain during all the cussing yesterday. I wonder if the designer of this rubber and track system still has a job and if they're still using this system on the new boats? Thanx again all :thumbsup:.
 
It's not the system that's the problem. It's the weather and just plain inexperience with the system (that's not a knock on you - most go through the same experience as you). Whether it's snaps or rubber, it's still a pain to put up when it's cold. It's just the nature of the beast - all clear vinyl/esinglass is hard to put up when it's cold.

There are some tricks, though - as mentioned above. One thing I noticed, though, was that you said you needed to remove the bimini leg - there is a little button on the rear leg that allows it to extend. The general idea is to extend it, hand the front 3 pieces and two side pieces by starting the zippers a few inches. Then do as much of the rubber as you can. Then collapse the rear leg (pull down on the top of the bimini frame to give you some leverage) and finish the rubber. The top of the rubber goes in first.

As was mentioned, this is a actually a VERY good system and seals extremely well compared to snaps. Once you know a couple of tricks, it's very nice to have this. Like Todd mentioned, I can have mine up in about 5 minutes - it just takes some practice to learn the system.
 
i have posted 2 or 3 times in the past about my efforts to install my windows and aft curtain as well.....i had exactly the same experience as you.....VERY frustrating....i do not even use my camper canvas now as a result.....one thing that can help is some form of lubrication (dish washing soap?) on the rubber and i used a rubber mallet to help pound the rubber into the channel.....

i have considered trying the 'zipper extenders' that this link is about..... http://www.canvas-boat-cover-and-repair-advisor.com/ez-xtend-boat-zippers.html ......it is designed to go between the bimini zippers and the canvas zipper to allow for easier installation of the camper canvas.....

i have not tried them but they look interesting and would probably work OK....they are not cheap but they are a lot less expensive than having new (slightly larger) canvas made and/or installing snaps.....

if you decide to try them please post the results....

cliff
 
If it's to the point of needing a hammer, then the canvas has probably seen better days and sure - do what you can to "make it work". But, with canvas/rubber in "normal" shape, the rubber piece should push in with your hand or thumb. If I didn't use a vinyl conditioner on the rubber, it would be harder for me, as well. But with that wiped on, it's pretty easy.
 
Lazy Daze said:
If it's to the point of needing a hammer, then the canvas has probably seen better days and sure - do what you can to "make it work". But, with canvas/rubber in "normal" shape, the rubber piece should push in with your hand or thumb. If I didn't use a vinyl conditioner on the rubber, it would be harder for me, as well. But with that wiped on, it's pretty easy.
Click to expand...

i guess when i said 'pound the rubber into the channel' that was a little overstated.....i could use my hand and thumbs to push the rubber into the channel after i applied the dish washing soap but the rubber mallet made it a little easier to 'pursuade' the rubber to slip into the channel.....:grin:....

cliff
 
This post and it's sister posts, about how hard the rubber track system is to install, indicate something is wrong. Like Dennis and Todd, I can put mine up alone in 5 minutes. (For the record, I have timed it.)

What might be wrong?

Operator error, it seems the folks having trouble usually never put the canvas on until it is a nasty situation in cold temps and rain. That is a recipe for disaster. I'll run through my install procedure later.

Improper fit, did canvas ever work right? Has it ever been on the boat? Is it original or has it been replaced?

Damage, has it baked in the sun improperly stored and turned brittle or deformed?

My order of install for camper canvas.

Pull the Bimini pins from the rear of both Bimini supports.

Partially zip on the front isenglass pieces and then start the zippers on the side isenglass.

Move to fore deck and work rubber into rail, the front first then the sides. There is NO pressure as the supports are released, just feed it in.

Now back in the cockpit, hang the camper sides and rear, then snap it down.

Now zip everything up starting at the front isenglass and work your way back.

Last, put the Bimini pins back in. This may take some pulling as it will be tight but that is what gives it a fit that allows it to function while moving.

The Admiral and I put ours up in a thunder storm on a rocking Lake Michigan in 7 minutes.

Use it it or lose it. Put it on every night in the warm summer, and take it back off every morning. It will be good for your practice and for it to stretch for the nice tight fit you want.

MM
 
thanks Mike....i agree 100% with you that it could be operator error.....i have tried the process you listed and the same process that Dennis and others have posted before....i even found a copy of the 'official' procedures from Sea Ray about how to install the canvas and followed those......i cannot answer your question about if the canvas ever fit properly before....when i bought my boat several years ago the PO said he never used the canvas.....i had to have new windows installed because the old windows had yellowed over time.....the first time i tried to install the canvas was in the middle of summer so the ambient temp was warm/hot.....i just wanted to see how the canvas was installed and like you and others stated get some practice on the installtion to the point it became second nature....the canvas never was easy to install, even with new windows and in the summer heat.....as far as subsequent times for me trying to install the canvas after that you are correct in that it was only when the weather was cooler (getting ready for winter storage) or in advance of an oncoming storm.....normally i have no reason to install the canvas on a clear, warm day.....i only need it for storm protection or winter storage.....

so, again it still could be operator error on my part....i am not too proud to admit that....i hope and wish that is all the problem is because i would love to be able to use the canvas....just this past WE we camped on the water Saturday night and a small amount of rain was expected early Sunday morning.....we had to sleep with the cabin door closed because if it did rain while we were asleep the cabin floor would get wet.....if i could have installed just the windows we could have left the cabin door open while we slept....

maybe the trick is like you suggested and install the canvas frequently during the summer to stretch it out and to gain confidence in how to install it.....

cliff
 
CliffA said:
maybe the trick is like you suggested and install the canvas frequently during the summer to stretch it out and to gain confidence in how to install it.....

cliff
Click to expand...

I really think so. I think how folks use their boat may make a difference in whether they use the canvas. We put ours up most nights to keep the dew off and the bugs out. I often skip putting the tops down as we get sun on the beach and use the cockpit as an escape from the sun, but we tend to use ours as our friends with bigger boats, rather than like we did when we used the bow rider. You might try using it regularly and I'll bet it will "fit" better. Being wet with dew and warming up in the morning sun can do wonders for it.

MM
 
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