E15 in fuel !

ttmott said:
I hesitate to reply due to your tone however; ethanol has a nominal minimum octane rating of 112, you do the math, it's not that hard. The gasoline blend between the two octane ratings lends the pump rating. I'm simply stating the chemistry.
Seems your statements are mostly hearsay so we'll leave it at that....
Just to qualify myself I have built and owned methanol / nitrous oxide injected outboard boats, blown/turbocharged methanol injected jet boats and professionally I'm a propulsion engineer in the space launch business...… so to state that what I say is untrue or "fake news" you'd be better served to put up some science and facts..
Tom
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Hey Tom, no offense meant. Just guys at a virtual dock having some fun challenging each other. LOL

I want my octane from the fuel not from the additive that deteriorates overtime. I couldn’t care less what the final octane is after the ethanol is added. What is the octane of the fuel I’m purchasing. What did I say in my post that is wrong? You didn’t mention what I said that was incorrect and your response. Fake news, is something that’s true but doesn’t present the entire picture. I didn’t say you were wrong.

MM
 
I guess none of you folks have had the trouble I've encountered with this crap. Take a nice new pair of 350 mags and prop them with typical Marine Max prop solution ;17"x20" on lets say a nice 310 Sundancer ,fill up with ethanol fuel here in Texas where we don't have a choice on this lake , take her out on a 102 degree day , where she's operating in 93 degree water and 100 % humidity with four souls on board and watch what happens . Not only do you suffer 20% power loss or more , but you can't reach recommended WOT or even come close . This is because this crap doesn't possess the BTU energy the engine needs which is compounded by environmental conditions So to the unaware operator , he's now operating at 3600 rpms WOT and literally cooking his valves to tulips! The engine needs to reach recommended WOT to build its rated HP and to live a normal lifespan,and that figure is 4850 min. on my engines or there about. The solution is a very expensive prop swap not only in a reduction of diameter but in pitch as well. My solution was a 18"x19" medium cupping .This allows WOT regardless of conditions and therefore no engine penalty . All the talk about ethanol's hygro scopic nature and its ability to kill components is spot on . I know because Iv'e replaced many customers components in my shop ruined by this crap. I don't care about the politics of why the powers that be think this crap is a good idea , but I do know what they didn't figure on happening to many people with medium sized inboard cruisers in southern climates. They don't care either . We have had tests here of the quantity of this alcohol in fuel and it may say 10% but its always much higher. I have had to change governor settings and rpms on gas generators to allow for the effects of ethanol. I have re-propped dozens of customers because of this crap. I feel sorry for the customer who just doesn't know and there fore can't take precautions .He watches his engines destroy themselves and by the time he's figured out something just ain't right , its too late . IT sucks when you don't have a choice ,but the powers that be don't care . In my opinion the sooner this crap goes away the better. In the mean time research the correct prop solution for your medium sized inboard cruiser in the hot south and don't listen to the Marine Max guy when he says the props are right because they don't know!
 
white glove boat said:
I guess none of you folks have had the trouble I've encountered with this crap. Take a nice new pair of 350 mags and prop them with typical Marine Max prop solution ;17"x20" on lets say a nice 310 Sundancer ,fill up with ethanol fuel here in Texas where we don't have a choice on this lake , take her out on a 102 degree day , where she's operating in 93 degree water and 100 % humidity with four souls on board and watch what happens . Not only do you suffer 20% power loss or more , but you can't reach recommended WOT or even come close . This is because this crap doesn't possess the BTU energy the engine needs which is compounded by environmental conditions So to the unaware operator , he's now operating at 3600 rpms WOT and literally cooking his valves to tulips! The engine needs to reach recommended WOT to build its rated HP and to live a normal lifespan,and that figure is 4850 min. on my engines or there about. The solution is a very expensive prop swap not only in a reduction of diameter but in pitch as well. My solution was a 18"x19" medium cupping .This allows WOT regardless of conditions and therefore no engine penalty . All the talk about ethanol's hygro scopic nature and its ability to kill components is spot on . I know because Iv'e replaced many customers components in my shop ruined by this crap. I don't care about the politics of why the powers that be think this crap is a good idea , but I do know what they didn't figure on happening to many people with medium sized inboard cruisers in southern climates. They don't care either . We have had tests here of the quantity of this alcohol in fuel and it may say 10% but its always much higher. I have had to change governor settings and rpms on gas generators to allow for the effects of ethanol. I have re-propped dozens of customers because of this crap. I feel sorry for the customer who just doesn't know and there fore can't take precautions .He watches his engines destroy themselves and by the time he's figured out something just ain't right , its too late . IT sucks when you don't have a choice ,but the powers that be don't care . In my opinion the sooner this crap goes away the better. In the mean time research the correct prop solution for your medium sized inboard cruiser in the hot south and don't listen to the Marine Max guy when he says the props are right because they don't know!
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I’m so tired of the ethanol debate I’ve decided to stay out of any ethanol arguments. But I will say one thing peoples claims of the negative effects of e10 have been way overblown and unsubstantiated. E10 has 97.6% of the energy content of straight gas. That’s a 2.4% difference. I would say hardly noticeable. For you to claim you suffer a 20% power loss is completely false. Back when I used to race we ran straight ethanol because we got more power out of it.
 
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Well I disagree . When the ethanol was mandated here I went mobile to a county north and brought back Gerry cans of non ethanol fuel and what do you think happened ? That sounds crazy but I wanted some empirical data . It would have been hilarious watching me with 20 Gerry cans of fuel dumping them into my 310 200 gallon tanks if it wasn't so infuriating ! I am also stating we have higher concentrations here in the gulf as well as oppressive operating environments , this synergism is what combines for the power loss and you can only correct for things you have control over ;props , fuel etc.The BTU energy 114000 btu?gallon vs 76,00 btu?gal that seems higher than a small percentage when it comes to energy producing. I saw it in my wife's truck a Ford POS with a 460 V8 pre ethanol mileage 12 mpg ,post ethanol 9mpg. You may have run pure alcohol like you say but I'm sure there were other factors. Her truck became an absolute pig despite it being a 460 . You may say that the claims are unsubstantiated but I have real experience that differs . I have re propped many customers cruisers to overcome this terrible synergism with real world positive effects so I guess we can agree to disagree on this . I am going to stick with what works in the real world for me .
 
My point is it's not e 10' it's much higher and the synergism kills power especially in medium sized inboards. The relationship of alcohol % by volume and available energy changes when the % volume increases. The synergism is more pronounced .There have been tests revealing much higher percentages here . Based on my experience and that of others here where we operate I'm going to assume the content is much more . I need to know where my results came from if not from the actions Iv'e taken . The ability of my cruiser to achieve 5000 rpm WOT and 32knots up from 4650 WOT and 29 knots straight gas vs ethanol respectively. The conditions I tested the boat were identical , in load, weather( humidity ,temperature wind) and sea temperature and were conducted scientifically ( empirical 1 nautical mile multiple runs beginning @ WOT and best SOG). My floscan which has 1gph graduations also reflected an increase fuel burn at WOT with the Ethanol vs straight gas . What happened ? This testing of both fuels was done in cold weather prior to changing from 17"x20" to 18"x19" props to overcome extreme weather ! If I have spent thousands of dollars of my money and that of customers looking up the ass end of a dead dog for an imagined benefit then I am a fool.
 
As I've said many times before, I'm not a gearhead and I don't pretend to be one.

I've seen what e fuel does to my small equipment. My Honda engines hate the stuff. Tune ups are a must at the end of every season. My chainsaws, weed eater, and Deere are drained of fuel. Maybe it's overkill I don't know, I just know they restart every Spring and I run the e fuels all Summer. I run 3 snow blowers and a sidewalk broom during the Winter, they only get e free fuel.

I've gotten lucky with the boat, the marina operator at Surry Seafood, Grays Creek. He knows boats and engines, he is only selling non e fuels. My 350's and Westerebeke run much better and are happy
 
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