Does the TSA make us safe?

Daddubo said:
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Sometimes the word ‘intelligence’ is just wasted on the people and/or government programs.

ONLY INAMERICA
Welcome Home, boys, TSA "Interrogates" our soldiers

As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan , I witnessed the
following:

When we were on our way back from Afghanistan , we flew out of Baghram
Air Field. We went through customs at BAF, full body scanners (no
groping), had all of our bags searched, the whole nine yards.
Our first stop was Shannon , Ireland to refuel. After that, we had to
stop at Indianapolis , Indiana to drop off about 100 folks from the
Indiana National Guard. That's where the stupid started.

First, everyone was forced to get off the plane-even though the plane
wasn't refueling again. All 330 people got off that plane, rather than
let the 100 people from the ING get off. We were filed from the plane to
a holding area. No vending machines, no means of escape. Only a
male/female latrine.

It's probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying weapons.
Everyone was carrying an M 4 Carbine and some, like me, were also
carrying an M 9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240 B machine guns. Of
course, the weapons weren't loaded. And we had been cleared of all ammo
well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then AGAIN at customs.

The TSA personnel at the airport seriously considered making us unload
all of the baggage from the SECURE cargo hold to have it re-inspected.
Keep in mind, this cargo had been unpacked, inspected piece by piece by
U.S. Customs officials, resealed and had bomb-sniffing dogs give it a
one-hour run through. After two hours of sitting in this holding area,
the TSA decided not to re-inspect our Cargo - just to inspect us again:
Soldiers on the way home from war, who had already been inspected,
re-inspected and kept in a SECURE holding area for 2 hours. Ok, whatever.
So we lined up to go through security AGAIN.

This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us were
carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also carrying
pistols.

So we're in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers had
his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous, but it
gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets and has a
pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the soldier that
they're going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went
something like this:

TSA Guy: You can't take those on the plane.

Soldier: What? I've had them since we left country on the way over.

TSA Guy: You're not suppose to have them.

Soldier: Why?

TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.

Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a
weapon. And I'm allowed to take it on.

TSA Guy: Yeah but you can't use it to take over the plane. You don't
have bullets.

Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?

TSA Guy: [awkward silence]

Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the
f__k out of here. I'll buy you a new set.

Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]

To top it off, the tsa demanded we all be swabbed for "explosive
residue" detection. Everyone failed, [go figure, we just came home from
a war zone], because we tested positive for "Gun Powder Residue". Who
the f__k is hiring these people?

This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233
people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and machine
guns - but nothing that could have been used as a 'weapon'.

Hell..... Can someone please tell me What the hell happened to OUR country while
we were gone?
Click to expand...

Great read. MM
 
Gofirstclass said:
TSA is one of my favorite jokes!

We're heading to AZ in a few weeks and I wanted to take my recip saw down there to do some work on my boat.
attachment.php

Rather than just show up at the airport with it, and have someone from TSA declare it a weapon or something, I went to the airport today to check with the real, live TSA people. Naturally, they were all at lunch except one poor schmuck who was standing there looking down the front of some girl's blouse while she was unloading some things from her suitcase. (Naturally, being a Sea Ray owner, I didn't look down and see those two gorgeous....but I digress!!!)

He was ticked that I interrupted his private viewing of the female's ummmmm assets, but answered my questions. I showed him a picture of what I wanted to take with me and he said I couldn't because it was a saw. I explained that I wasn't going to take any blades, so without the blades it's not technically a saw. He checked the TSA website and said "it says here you can't take any rechargeable saws." I then explained that it wasn't a rechargeable saw, that it needs to be plugged into 110V power to be useable.

He then asked me why I would want to take the saw down to AZ without taking any blades. When I explained that I could pick up blades anywhere down there, but I didn't want to have to buy another saw. Then he suggested I put it in a checked bag. So I explained that it cost more to check the bag than the saw cost and I wanted to just carry it on.

His final answer to me before going back to the private showing, was that I'd have to take my chance and show up at the gate with it and it was up to the supervisor on duty at the time if I would be able to take it with me on the plane, and the likelihood of that happening depended on which supervisor was on duty at the time.

So this is the best that our gubmint has to offer to protect us?
Click to expand...

You cannot make up stuff this stupid. This is what a couple of guys were debating about the medicine, inconsistancy, "...it was up to the supervisor on duty at the time..." MM
 
My wife was stuck in Portland, OR, on 9/11. She called me at the high rise where I worked, a block down the street from the brownstone Federal building that McVeigh cased before he decided on the Murrah bldg. My Chrysler parked next door would have been a goner if things had gone differently. Maybe me as well, as I was a block South on 15th street. Back to 9/11, planes were still in the air, and she was pretty freaked out. My pregnant wife and I left the Empire State (88th?) observation deck about an hour before the Palistinian guy shot it up after we left in '97. There are a few other crosses with history. Sometimes I feel like Forrest Gump.

Anyhoo, I've been harrassed, ((the accidental fork in the bottom of my athletic bag carry on (brown bagging does not pay) was not very popular when we flew Christmass '01 - in the air when the shoe bomber was - there is a trend here.)) The guy in fatigues with the machine gun at our airport garage was a disconcerting sight. Such are the times we live in.

A client of mine a few years ago was a TSA agent. She went back to school to go into the medical field - following her husband who is an x-ray tech. The TSA job s*ck*d. Nobody wants to be the person that "let the m*th*r f*ck*r through."

Post Christmas 2009 at McCarren (Las Vegas) was a joke. They looked at the crowd and let us through.

I'm still p*ss*d about the torn trenchcoat in Denver. And, nobody wears them anymore. I still have my classic London Fog in the back closet.

Anyway, flying can really s**k.

Does anybody have the solution? Primarily, mine is that I drive whenever possible! Ice tea in the cupholder, stereo cranked! A bit pokey if the drive exceeds about 12 hours.

Personally, I don't get too wound about the see through x-ray and the body grope. My high school girlfriend was not that interested in me 40 hours a week, the average TSA worker isn't either.

The TSA s*cks, but at least we've not seen a repeat of 9/11.

Yet.
 
A long time ago there was no security. Then there was a little security. Now there is a lot of security. I used to fly on buisness for 30 years. In the 70ies it was fun to fly in the 80ies it was OK into the late 90ies it got stupid. Now I fly on private flights with no security. it is like the 70ies again. The deregulation of the air lines did them in. They are busses that fly and some of the people on them looked like they borrowed the money to fly. Some resemblance of security is better than non. If you had real police as security your ticket would cost more. Would you like to see a $50 fee for security on your next ticket? In the 80ies the security people seemed to know who to stop and who to let go through. Sort of like profiling but it was common sence then.
 
northern said:
A long time ago there was no security. Then there was a little security. Now there is a lot of security. I used to fly on buisness for 30 years. In the 70ies it was fun to fly in the 80ies it was OK into the late 90ies it got stupid. Now I fly on private flights with no security. it is like the 70ies again. The deregulation of the air lines did them in. They are busses that fly and some of the people on them looked like they borrowed the money to fly. Some resemblance of security is better than non. If you had real police as security your ticket would cost more. Would you like to see a $50 fee for security on your next ticket? In the 80ies the security people seemed to know who to stop and who to let go through. Sort of like profiling but it was common sence then.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with profiling, it seems like common sense, and to a degree it is, and should be a tool in the arsenal. But, it can't be the only tool. Having worked next to Timothy McVeigh's runner up target, and talking to our hysterical sales staff that were in downtown OK City that day, I have a somewhat first hand feel for when the less obvious problem is the problem.

We fly enough in our house that I've always hoped for some sort of "approved fly list" that would expedite pre-approved travelers. I suppose the trouble is that some would see it as another form of profiling. Me, a white, middle class guy with a family, churchgoing Christian, gainfully employed, excellent credit, established record in the community, history of many flights with no trouble. My criminal record begins and ends with three minor speeding tickets that I paid promptly, without contest, while in college. I'd seemingly be an easy approval.

Would Timothy McVeigh be approved? Hard to say at what point his approval would have been removed, and on what grounds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

We were close to my daughter’s fifth grade teacher, her brother was victim number 1, and victim number 8 of this guy worked for the same brokerage company that I do. Would this guy be approved? My daughter would cry every time we passed Von Maur on the expressway for almost two years. And, I live in Omaha. We used to think this stuff didn’t happen here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting

I missed my appointment with this guy by about an hour when in New York in 1997. My wife was pregnant with the daughter noted above. As it happens, we were borderline the minority when outside the Empire that day. Would this guy be approved? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Empire_State_Building_shooting

A 22 year old Muslim male, no family, sketchy employment, attends mass at a place with a controversial leader. He should probably be the head of the double check line. While I don’t dispute this, the ACLU might be just a slight problem.

So, what the TSA tries to do, as much as anything, is create some randomness and unpredictability, aided by the fact that they can't afford to create uniform placement of all machines everywhere. Planning a successful attack is complicated by the fact that the bad guys don't always know what they will check, and why.

I also agree with the point that we get what we pay for. If you want somebody that is empowered to make some on the spot decisions about who is searched, and how, and can do this with a “customer service” attitude, and has enough common sense about medical conditions to work around the delicate problem of people wearing diapers, etc., we’ll have to change the job requirements and pay scale at TSA to recruit and retain these folks. I knew an agent that went back to school and is now making a lot more. She was probably a pretty good agent.

So, we have thousands of people, surely some that left burger flipping, handling millions of people every year. We are bound to hear some pretty outrageous stories about stupidity in motion.

So, I cooperate and try to be pleasant to people that have a thankless job, even when I’m pretty steamed. And, they let me off the hook pretty fast when a random fork from my lunch bag fell underneath the floor of my Lands’ End bag. I did not wind up on You Tube with a fork from our junk drawer that my folks bought in Germany in 1960 when my dad was in the service.

And, I can still afford the ticket.
 
The 9-11 guys had planning. They had 4" blades because 4" was allowed and 4.5" was not.

If there was a "pre approved" or "trusted flyer list", they would have gotten themselves on that list.


They now charge for luggage. They have fuel surcharges. They have Tuesday surcharges. I think I have even seen a surcharge collection surcharge.


If they could reasonably collect $50 for enhanced security, then the cost would appear today (regardless if the security actually costs $0, $50, or $100).
 
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In 1987 I was in South Korea on business, I had been there 3 weeks and was suppose to pick a friend up at the airport. That morning when I got up there was a fellow at a desk at the elevator with a machine gun. I returned to my room and called the desk, they said yes I was right and every thing is OK. I asked for my car and driver to take me to the airport, they said that was not possible. I asked why not and they just said that is not possible. The military was every where you could not find anything out, you could not get to the airport. I tried to place a call back to Canada and was told I could not, I tried to send a telex home, all communications to the outside world we cut off. I found out 3 days later that the North Korea's had blown up a plane at the airport and the military had taken over security of the country. My wife and my company were very worried, the outside world knew what happened but no one in Korea did. My wife was relieved to find out I was safe and wanted me home right away. I stayed another 2 weeks, upon leaving as we arrived at the airport we went through 3 spot checks on the road; first one dogs checking the car inside and out, second one mirrors under the car and people checking under the hood, the third check point my luggage opened and dumped on the road and every thing inspected. I repacked every thing and got back in the car and arrived at the airport, the doors had metal detectors and they went off as I went through. They took all my luggage and x-rayed it, they were looking at something on the monitor, talking and pointing. They motioned me to look at the monitor, none spoke English, I was with a fellow from the Canadian government that is fluent in Korean, He said to me no sudden moves tell me what you see, they have been given permission to shoot us if necessary. I had no clue what it was on the screen, it looked like a circle of things like pens all bound together. They motioned to me to open the bag, when I did I knew what they saw, it was souvenir spoons 25 of them that I had bought the first week that I was there. When they saw what it was they laughed, I was still shaking. I have never experienced such security in my life and never have since. Our security in North America is a show more than anything and not a very good one, nothing like other countries.

Ken
 
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Crazy. I brought back chocolate that i bought in the airport in Belgium and was not allowed to take it home. They gave me the option to go back to the counter and check it even thought my bags were gone already. sheesh
 
On a flight my wife was was working, a suspicious box was found in the overhead bin w/a note attached to it that said: "god's will be done, you can't change the course", needless to say, that caused quite the up roar !! Bottom, line, people still are trying dry runs and what ever to penetrate our system, and if you don't think so your smoking crack!!:smt021
 
"Republican presidential candidate and Texas Rep. Ron Paul issued a sharply-worded statement in reaction to the detention of his son, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, by Transportation Security Administration agents in Nashville on Monday.“The police state in this country is growing out of control,” Paul wrote in a statement provided to The Daily Caller. “One of the ultimate embodiments of this is the TSA that gropes and grabs our kids and our seniors and does nothing to keep us safe.”



http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/23/r...y-tsa-police-state-is-growing-out-of-control/
 
By way of a followup to my earlier post about my contact with the TSA about carrying a sawzall to AZ on a plane, here's the rest of the story....

I took the Harbor Freight ad to the airport one day when I knew the TSA people wouldn't be busy. I asked one of the TSA agents if I could speak to a supervisor. She to me to wait a minute and she disappeared. A few minutes later another woman came out and said she was the on-duty supervisor. I showed her the ad and explained that I wanted to take it with me. I also said I would leave the blades at home and buy more blades in AZ. She said it was prohibited because it was a power tool. But I explained that it was only a power tool if I had access to power, and Allegiant's planes don't have 110V power plug ins. She said they do in the lavatories, so I said that might be true, but without blades it isn't a power saw and as soon as I stepped out of the lavatory the cord would unplug and it would no longer be a power tool.

At that she asked me to wait a minute and she went back into their inner sanctum. She came back out a few minutes later and said "you can't take it because it's against our SOP's." I asked if I could see the SOP's and she said no, they were classified. She then added that she'd also checked with HER supervisor and HE agreed that it couldn't be taken.

Ah ha, now I got a man involved. I asked if I could speak to him and she got him. He was the airport's TSA manager. I explained to him what I wanted to do and why, and gave him all the arguments I'd given the other lady and showed him the Harbor Freight ad. His comment was "WOW, that's a really good price." I figured with that comment I was dealing with a MAN who understood tools and might agree with my logic.

After a minute or two of my twisting his arm he relented. He gave me one of his business cards and suggested I email him a few days before we travel and remind him of our conversation. He said he would clear it so I could take it on the flight.

See, there ARE some peple in the TSA who understand male logic.
 
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