Does anybody else see this as so WRONG !!

[lacook]

So.... let me stir the pot.

Who thinks there should be "gay rights?"

How about sex change operations? Should they be covered by insurance (like Medicaid)?

What are gay rights? The only right they dont have is to get married, and yes I think anyone who is an adult, who can vote, drink and serve this country should have the right to get married.

I dont think ANY insurance should pay for a sex change. It is an elective surgery like a boob job or a face lift. Last time I check insurance didnt cover those either.

 

[Iprof]

Elton ahd David are both interested in rearing their child.

I'm staying away from this quote, it's just too easy.

The age factor is my biggest complaint, I also agree with the post the child will be treated like a pet and that is no way for any child to be brought up. Children learn by watching mommy and daddy and they mimic us, never heard of a child that did not say at one time I want to grow up and be just like mommy or daddy.
While I am open mined to most things, the safety and raising of children I'm not, this situation is just plain wrong.

And I won't get into an argument over my beliefs, their mine, just as Waynes are his.

Ken

 

[skibum]

I have to be totally honest here ok fella's? cpt sundancer has been coming to this site for awhile now. He sought it out because of some issue with our SeaRay. He so enjoys this site. It is almost like a Bible to him when it comes to our boat. The technical support he gets the ideas and creativity is AWESOME. Thanks to all of you.

Technical support and mechanical ideas is not why I came or joined this site. I stay away from those threads. I came in here to protect my pig! To give my husband back up in all the pig bashing. I guess when the thread was closed I should of left and kept out of these other threads. They read as non boating issues with boating people. My favorite people are boating people. Like Tina says "If you come down to the river...."
Now I enjoy this site and these "FUN" threads. Seems my opinion and my being here is upsetting some people. I am sad about this, because I have made some acquaintances that I know in real life I would boat with any day of the week!

I would like to stay and hang out and still post on these non technical sites, but if it is inappropriate or unwelcome, just send me a private message ( room moderator) and I will go away more gracefully then I appeared.

Happy New Year LA

LA,

Don't leave. There is no need for that. You know what they say about opinions, everybody has one.

Your opinions, while they differ from mine, are in no way "upsetting". They're just different. I want to hear others' opinions even when I don't agree with them. Heck, if I don't know what your opinion is, then how can I possibly shoot it down in a giant ball of flames? :grin:

The real problem with these sort of threads is when someone runs out of logical ways to defend their position, then it turns into defensiveness, name calling (intolerant, racist, *phobe...), personal attacks, and "We gotta ban threads like this because my positions can't hold water under real scrutiny and I look like a boob trying to defend them".

I'd go boating and/or drinking beer with you, Zorba, and Comsnark any day of the week. Just don't ask me to vote for you as anything other than dog catcher. If one of you actually wants to BE dog catcher, then I'll vote for you. Any other public office, no friggin' way. (I'd vote for Kojak as dog catcher. That would be cool if you could teach him to round them up...).

I just love how Americans in general have been steered away from discussing controversial issues. Those in power that want society to curl up in a ball in the corner while they grab all of the power and control are succeeding. They have trained people. Social issues? When your position is in trouble, lash out with *phobe, racist, etc.. Political issues? When your position is in trouble, claiming "intolerance" is a good way to stop the conversation. Financial issues? Call them dirty, stinky, greedy bastards.

Strong dissent is the enemy of those trying to take over our lives. Some of us refuse to accept the canned politically correct excuses created by the establishment to perpetuate the amassing of power in the government and supress the rights and freedoms of the individual. There are rebels in every war. Some of us simply can't be programmed to believe that abberant social behavior is normal, and we will continue to fight the good fight for those that have accepted the program. Hang in there. Help is on the way.

 

[skibum]

We all know that a mob mentality runs rampant on this site and whenever a opinion differing form the norm (for this site) is stated the mob is called into action.

This is a classic example of what I just said in my last reply to LA above.

Zorba, have you considered the possibility that maybe the "mob mentality" that you referred to is actually what "mainstream" society thinks and that people who hold the opposing view simply outnumber you? From my perspective, I am simply defending the normal order of nature, while you are trying to convince the "mainstream" otherwise.

Look at the election map from the last midterm election. All that red shows areas of the country where people more likely than not, disagree with you. I guess that makes them the mob?

Going back to my bunker now to polish up my weapons, pray, and then head out to beat up some gay, crippled, homeless, sick, illegal immigrant pig farmers...

 

[skibum]

Come on now a mental illness? Did you really say that out loud, and think I was NOT going to respond? So do you think alcoholism and drug addiction is a mental illness too?

Yes, yes, and yes. They are all signs of psycological problems.

 

[popeye]

Yes, yes, and yes. They are all signs of psycological problems.

Your positions are well taken. When logical arguments become overwhelming, those on the left can be expected to attack the messenger, and engage in name calling. It's the nature of the beast.....:thumbsup:

 

[skibum]

Actually one theory is and the theory I tend to understand and believe being gay is a DNA or gene or chemical make up. Mental illness is a chemical imbalance. Why people are gay, is a nature thing with in their own chemical construction. No one wakes up one more and says OH I WILL BE GAY! Not going to happen. There are treatment and cures for mental illness, not so for being gay. Nor should there be. The issue of being Gay has been around for centuries.

NOW HOLD THE PHONE THERE, LADY...

You didn't really just do that, did you?

"Mental illness is a chemical imbalance. Why people are gay, is a nature thing with in their own chemical construction."

You just flamed Scott for calling being gay a mental illness. Then you immediately define mental illness as a chemical imbalance, then you state that being gay is due to "chemical construction", which is what Scott was saying. Its a chemical imbalance, which causes the mental illness, which drives the behavior.

Let me ask you a question. Is the fact that the vast majority of the population is not gay due to genetics, chemical makeup, or trained thought? Are most people heterosexual because they were taught to be that way? What about the animal kingdom? Who "taught" them? At some point you just need to step back, remove the "gay" issue, and use science. Group A exhibits behavior similar to 96% of the base population. Group B exhibits behavior similar to 4% of the base population. If you were the scientist and someone handed you the results and said there is a problem with one of these behavior patterns and we need you to help us identify the "problem" behavior, which group would you study?

One final point to the quote above is that what DOES make a person become gay? Maybe they really DO just wake up one morning and decide to be gay. I'm not gay, but I don't ever recall actually sitting down with myself and giving any serious thought as to which gender I was going to sleep with for the rest of my life and then running with that decision. There was one day, immediately after my first "real" date with a woman, where I thought about becoming gay but that was like a 2 second thing that ended up with me laughing at the thought. I really don't count that. My second date turned out much and I never looked back. Again... since neither one of us knows what really causes gayness, why would we experiment by exposing small children to it? That is a grave injustice to the child. The "risk" is that we could induce gay behavior in a child that otherwise would have turned out to be heterosexual. If that happens, the childs' opportunity to experience the "normal" course of human behavior of growing up, choosing a mate, and procreating the species would have been stolen from them.

The gay and bisexual lifestyles, as well as other forms or deviant behavior such as beastiality, should be kept far away from all children up until such time as the natural event that triggers the desire to participate in those behaviors happens on its own. At some point, a gay person realizes or decides that they are gay or will be gay. At that point, they can be told how to seek out others that feel the same way. I have no problems with that, but raising a small child around that behavior, and even worse, promoting it as acceptable, is simply not worth the risk to the child.

Now the whole BI-Sexual thing is by choice and for pure sexual pleasure. It has nothing to do with love or relationships or life partners. Which (most) men tend to think two bi-women are sexy and fantasize about being with two women. Now to me THAT IS SICK! Same goes for one women being with two men, most men would call her ugly names. I think the whole BI thing is just sick no matter what sex is engaging in the practice. Again I dont see BI sexual and Gay in the same light in any way. Bi-sexual is for sex. Being Gay is a life style and sex is a small part of it.

So if I state that throughout this whole thread, my position is, and has been, that the whole homosexual thing is by choice and for pure sexual pleasure, possibly in combination with an inability to successfully interact with the female half of the species, then I am an intolerant, phobic, son of a gun? What gives? That really is my position. Why is it OK for you to think that about one form of behavior and not OK for me to lump in a second category of unusual behavior with it? :huh:

Being gay is not a gender like being a male or female, there are only 2 gender classifications (actually 3, but I think that we all agree that any human being with both male and female reproductive organs is neither male or female and deserving of a unique classification of their gender). If it is a "chemical construction" problem, then obviously the formula was slightly off and we should develop a drug to correct the imbalance. If it is a genetic defect, then which gene causes it? If it hasn't been identified, then we can't assume. My personal belief is that it is simply a "learned" behavior, which is the sole basis for my position that gay couples should not be allowed to adopt or raise children.

 

[skibum]

What is normal? A setting on a dryer!!! For me and my family a pig living in our house, going boating with us and attending family outings is NORMAL! Who are you or anyone else to say it is not? It may not be normal for you, but it is for me. Does that make you right or me wrong? No I don't think so. It is what each individual in there life adapts as normal in their life right?

Well... I am going out on a limb here, but having a pig as a pet is not exactly what I would call being "normal".

That being said, I would have no problem letting you exhibit your unnatural behavior in front of small children or impressionable CSR members. I don't think the safety of our civilization, or the survival of our species really are in play on this one. :smt043:smt043:smt043

I think anchoring out with you guys would be a real hoot !

 

[320Bob]

Skibum,
You elequently took the words right out of my keyboard!:thumbsup: I can't add anything of significance to what you have said.

 

[sbw1]

I wonder if "odd ducks" are gay.

 

[Zorba]

This is a classic example of what I just said in my last reply to LA above.

Zorba, have you considered the possibility that maybe the "mob mentality" that you referred to is actually what "mainstream" society thinks and that people who hold the opposing view simply outnumber you? From my perspective, I am simply defending the normal order of nature, while you are trying to convince the "mainstream" otherwise.

Look at the election map from the last midterm election. All that red shows areas of the country where people more likely than not, disagree with you. I guess that makes them the mob?

Going back to my bunker now to polish up my weapons, pray, and then head out to beat up some gay, crippled, homeless, sick, illegal immigrant pig farmers...

Ski Bum,

You assume you know my political view. Dont make assumptions.

All I want to know how it is fair to class an entire group of people as molesters.

 

[skibum]

Its probably not fair. Life is not fair, the world is not fair, nothing is fair. Everybody has to deal with what is unfair to them.

I fail to see a problem with being unfair.

 

[lacook]

NOW HOLD THE PHONE THERE, LADY...

You didn't really just do that, did you?

"Mental illness is a chemical imbalance. Why people are gay, is a nature thing with in their own chemical construction."

You just flamed Scott for calling being gay a mental illness. Then you immediately define mental illness as a chemical imbalance, then you state that being gay is due to "chemical construction", which is what Scott was saying. Its a chemical imbalance, which causes the mental illness, which drives the behavior.

Let me ask you a question. Is the fact that the vast majority of the population is not gay due to genetics, chemical makeup, or trained thought? Are most people heterosexual because they were taught to be that way? What about the animal kingdom? Who "taught" them? At some point you just need to step back, remove the "gay" issue, and use science. Group A exhibits behavior similar to 96% of the base population. Group B exhibits behavior similar to 4% of the base population. If you were the scientist and someone handed you the results and said there is a problem with one of these behavior patterns and we need you to help us identify the "problem" behavior, which group would you study?

One final point to the quote above is that what DOES make a person become gay? Maybe they really DO just wake up one morning and decide to be gay. I'm not gay, but I don't ever recall actually sitting down with myself and giving any serious thought as to which gender I was going to sleep with for the rest of my life and then running with that decision. There was one day, immediately after my first "real" date with a woman, where I thought about becoming gay but that was like a 2 second thing that ended up with me laughing at the thought. I really don't count that. My second date turned out much and I never looked back. Again... since neither one of us knows what really causes gayness, why would we experiment by exposing small children to it? That is a grave injustice to the child. The "risk" is that we could induce gay behavior in a child that otherwise would have turned out to be heterosexual. If that happens, the childs' opportunity to experience the "normal" course of human behavior of growing up, choosing a mate, and procreating the species would have been stolen from them.

The gay and bisexual lifestyles, as well as other forms or deviant behavior such as beastiality, should be kept far away from all children up until such time as the natural event that triggers the desire to participate in those behaviors happens on its own. At some point, a gay person realizes or decides that they are gay or will be gay. At that point, they can be told how to seek out others that feel the same way. I have no problems with that, but raising a small child around that behavior, and even worse, promoting it as acceptable, is simply not worth the risk to the child.



So if I state that throughout this whole thread, my position is, and has been, that the whole homosexual thing is by choice and for pure sexual pleasure, possibly in combination with an inability to successfully interact with the female half of the species, then I am an intolerant, phobic, son of a gun? What gives? That really is my position. Why is it OK for you to think that about one form of behavior and not OK for me to lump in a second category of unusual behavior with it? :huh:

Being gay is not a gender like being a male or female, there are only 2 gender classifications (actually 3, but I think that we all agree that any human being with both male and female reproductive organs is neither male or female and deserving of a unique classification of their gender). If it is a "chemical construction" problem, then obviously the formula was slightly off and we should develop a drug to correct the imbalance. If it is a genetic defect, then which gene causes it? If it hasn't been identified, then we can't assume. My personal belief is that it is simply a "learned" behavior, which is the sole basis for my position that gay couples should not be allowed to adopt or raise children.

Chemical construction does not have to be exact for each person at least so I am told by my endocrinologist. Once a persons chemical make up is determined, then a imbalance can be checked or looked for. At least that is how it has been explained to me. If you are how you are suppose to be you cant be treated medically, unless something is off or wrong. Of course I have never heard a medical doctor come out and say GAY IS A DISEASE.

I was basing my analogy on 3 things. 1. Being diabetic and how it was explained to me by my doctor is was in my make up. 2. My vast understand that addiction is a disease. 3. Having long discussions with two young men who are a gay couple and I care for a great deal.

I maybe totally wrong, BUT it is how I have come to understand it and accept it, and it brings me some peace and acceptance, and tolerance.

I do have one question. What every one having problems with is same sex sex right? Children shouldn't be expose to same sex sex. Well as a heterosexual, I never have had sex in front of my small children. I think most parents think and feel the same way. Why would gay parents be any different?

 

[lacook]

Well... I am going out on a limb here, but having a pig as a pet is not exactly what I would call being "normal".

That being said, I would have no problem letting you exhibit your unnatural behavior in front of small children or impressionable CSR members. I don't think the safety of our civilization, or the survival of our species really are in play on this one. :smt043:smt043:smt043

I think anchoring out with you guys would be a real hoot !

what I would call being "normal". Point made. What is normal for you is not normal for me. Being different and having different understandings and expectant of normal is what makes us all different. OK alright but different.

We would welcome anyone to anchor out with us, but we are rather just plain old normal humdrum people. Doing what we love. Nothing out of the ordinary or exciting about that. Pretty normal behavior. Yet we we bring out guests who are not boaters or campers or river people. They are blown away by what we consider a normal day on the boat......

 

[JimG]

Skibum,
You elequently took the words right out of my keyboard!:thumbsup: I can't add anything of significance to what you have said.

+1 :thumbsup:

 

[lacook]

You've never held your husband's hand in front of your children? You've never kissed your husband on the lips in front of your children?

Do you think your children might have learned any type of behavior what so ever, by watching public display of affection? Hmmmm?

They don't have to engage in full out sex in front of a child to have an effect on their learned behavior.

I believe children should see loving kind gestures, I dont care who is showing them. A child seeing kindness is better then a child see or feeling abuse.

http://www.republican-eagle.com/event/article/id/71213/

I only wish these 3 innocent newborns had a chance at seeing an act of kindness or love between two people. The one and only act these babies saw or felt in life was cold empty unwanted and abuse.

 

[Smile Maker]

Y'all should all move to Alabama. We don't have gay people here.

And even when a gay pair visits, we are all too polite to make an issue of it (bless their hearts).

And, the river is great!

 

[Gofirstclass]

FWIW, I used to be very anti-gay. I also used to be anti-black, anti-hispanic, anti-most everything that wasn't a white male/female brought up in a "normal" family with two parents, one of each sex.

Then I got out of college and worked for a black supervisor while I was in the USAF. That opened my eyes to what blacks are really like and I discovered they're much like me, only with a different skin color. He and I became good friends and I missed him when he got transferred to another base.

Fast forward many years to a point where I was a manager in a company. One of the employees whom I liked and trusted came to me one day and said he had something he wanted to talk about. He said he'd lied on his job application when he said he was married. He confessed that he was really in a gay relationship "with a man I truly love and we have a very loving, caring relationship that's lasted almost 20 years."

That last statement put the whole "gay thing" in a new perspective for me. I, like some on here who have very strong anti-gay opinions, had never thought of gays other than in the context of gay sex and I found that repulsive. When I thought of the "gay thing" in terms of a loving relationship it opened my eyes.

The company policy was to terminate an employee who they found had lied on his job application. I knew this and had a lengthy meeting with the HR director and convinced her not to fire this person. He was a very good employee, did well on the job, was liked by his peers and there was no real good reason to terminate him.

Many years later GW and I met and I found out she has a few friends who are gay males, one of them from elementary school where they both grew up in a very small town in WA. I've met three of her gay friends and you know what.....they're pretty normal and I enjoy being around them. Two of them are a gay couple who live in Portland and I stayed with them a few times when I was down there working on the boat. No big surprise here--they did not try to molest me EVEN ONCE! Glory be.

To say that a gay lifestyle is "normal" would require one to first examine what he/she considers to be "normal". We all have our own idea of what constitutes "normal", and I bet many of us would disagree on that definition.

Do I consider a gay couple to be "normal"? Not really. I still believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman. Do I believe the gay lifestyle is wrong? No, not a bit.

I believe a person is born with a chemical/genetic/other makeup that determines whether they are gay or straight. It's not a choice they make, and they're not "recruited" to be gay or straight. GW has told me that she knew in junior high that her friend was gay. It didn't bother her and they've been good friends for many years. It also doesn't bother me. I enjoy being with her gay friends, sharing a bottle of wine over dinner, having them stay in our home when they're here or staying with them when we're in Portland.

On the Elton/David adoption issue, I have no doubt that child will not want for anything. I also have no doubt that as he gets older and starts to recognize that he has two daddies that they will start to explain to him what being gay is all about. I doubt they will try to convince him that being gay is "the right thing to do" and I do believe he will learn to be tolerant of the lifestyle of others.

If he learns that as a young boy, won't that give him a wonderful start on being a successful adult?

 

[Four Suns]

nevermind...

 

[lacook]

Bravo GOFIRSTCLASS!

In all my fumbling and mumbling for well stated words, with great failure. You Sir did it with CLASS, First Class. Well done, and thank you.

Happy New Year to you and yours.