Do NADA values ever go up?

[matthewmiller01]

OK. I know the basics. All boats go down in value all the time (barring collectors' items which I won't ever have). But since NADA values are driven by sales numbers and since the last couple of years of bad economic times have hammered the market down (possibly) farther than a normal year's depreciation, my question is since (presumably) the market is turning around and sales numbers are rising, will the NADA values actually RISE in the next few quarters? This would be helpful to anyone who is considering selling in the near future (like me).

Has anyone EVER seen NADA values actually go up from one quarter to the next?

 

[Summer Fun II]

I don't see that happening anytime to soon. !!
Where I live boats are selling at half of they're worth.
No one has any money for the toys. :smt021

 

[JVM225]

I doubt it. The economy isn't all that much better, and I think that in years past some people might have taken equity out of their homes for big purchase's like boats.
The home values haven't risen, and if and when they do; I think the days of the easy re-fi, or big home equity loans to purchase toys are long gone.
Even if things do get better, there is a lot of boats on the market.
If you want to move a boat around here you need to take about 50 or 60 percent of what it's NADA value is. You can hold out for more, but you'll probably own the boat for a real long time.

 

[JV II]

Only if you have a Sea Core drive.

 

[Turtlesboat]

I heard seacore boats are going for .20 cents on the dollar.

 

[JV II]

I heard seacore boats are going for .20 cents on the dollar.

Baited, caught, and released. :thumbsup:

 

[matthewmiller01]

Watching the ads (because the Admiral and I want to move up to a cruiser), I would have to say that boats ARE moving. Of course, I don't have the numbers to tell what it is taking to move them with regard to values. (Also, Obama said the economy is all better and the stealership told me that they are moving too, so it HAS to be true, right? :thumbsup

 

[fwebster]

I have seen price guide values go up..........but I've been around boats a long time (no old jokes please Gary).

But I have to tell you that right now is a very dangerous time to try to use NADA or BUC values for any buying or selling decision. Your local conditions, i.e. what is on the market and the demand where you are totally controls what boats are selling for. Some markets still have some distressed boats (repossessions, short sales, desperate sellers) available, but in others, there are no boats available and brokers/dealers are begging for listings. The demand side of the equation is just as skewed.......some areas have been hit hard and have fallen on economic hard times. There is no money and no credit available for boat buying, so there is no demand. Other areas, like where we are, draw boaters from major cities 300-400 miles away so there are qualified buyers looking.

The other problem with price guides is that there is so little raw data on sold boats provided now that many of the published values are mathmetical calculations instead of actual sales data. That means that by using a price guide you are making decisions based on some clerk's manipulations of the numbers and not on hard facts.

Without considering your local conditions, using published price guides can cause you to miss a good boat or to sell yours too cheap, or worse, not at all because it isn't priced for your market.

 

[matthewmiller01]

Thanks. I agree with you. The problem is that the dealers that I have talked to are using NADA with the value of my trade. This results in my boat being below where I think it should be valued (doesn't everyone?). Anyway... I can not even find the boat I am looking for (260DA) without going 3+ hours away. This would be fine if I were ready to buy, but I am still in the research phase so that I can make the best decision. There are plenty of bowriders like mine around here and they are selling fairly well. I just can't find trailerable cruisers around here. There just aren't any.

 

[Lazy Daze]

What Frank said about "market driven" sales is so true. In our area, used boats are selling at, or usually well above, NADA value. The problem we are seeing, right now, is the new product is not selling as well as it should. Partly due to lack of available financing (it has been become EXTREMELY hard to get people financed as of late), partly due to lack of traffic for new boats.

It's very hard to predict the future, but I do think it's a good possibility that the NADA values will move up if things continue to get better. Or, I'd at least like to think so...

If you're considering buying a used cruiser, well then it really doesn't matter when you buy as the values (for your boat and the new one) will all wash out in the end (should). If you're considering buying a new cruiser, one thing to keep in mind is that even though NADA values may go up, your boat also gets older every year which will pull the value back down.

In the end, I'm not sure any of us can really do anything more than guess.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[skolbe]

Considering a new 350/370 is in the $400K plus range, I hope to god that the NADA value for a '07 340 DA moves up some. Who in their right mind would buy a new cruiser with depreciation curves like they are right now.

I think when you can buy a nice barely used 340 for half the price of a new 350 - it makes a new boat hard to justify. When I bought my 320 - the used 320's were often more than what I paid or close to what I paid for my new 320 or the used ones were very neglected. I suspect that depreciation will slow down on the boats and maybe hold steady. But don't expect the values to increase significantly anytime soon. I do agree that used boats are selling. I have seen some dealers at Lake of The Ozarks offering to buy your brokered boat if it doesn't sell in 90 days. I am sure there is lots of fine print, but people are looking for used boats.

 

[JVM225]

Sometimes you need to give a deal, to get a deal.
Meaning: You may have to sell your boat for less, but if it means that it puts you in a position to buy it's replacement for less than a perceived value, then it's worth it.
You'd probably be better served by looking at what it's going to cost you to move up (the difference in price between what you sell the old one for, and buy the new one for).
Too many people want to sell their old boat for top dollar, and buy the next one at a discount because of the down market.
That's a great plan if it works out for you, but hard to make happen.
I have several friends in the new car business. They tell me that many times they get people in the showroom that will not budge off of a price for their trade-in. The dealer can sometimes make it happen for them, but it's usually by adding to the cost of the new one in some way either through price, or financing, or other add ons. In the end, the buyer still paid the price difference between his trade and the new car as he would have paid when he first started the deal, but his ego feels better because in his mind he got what he wanted for his trade.
I have a friend who is looking to sell a boat that would be a nice step up for me in size and age. He hasn't gotten any serious shoppers or offers on it, but really wants to get rid of it before the end of this season. His slip is paid for this summer, but he would really like the boat gone before he has to start getting involved in winterization and storage again.
I would like to move up. I planned on it last summer, but it got put on hold because I bought a little piece of property to dock my boat at instead. It was a good idea for me because it significantly reduced the annual cost of owning a boat. The property was priced right in this market, and I could turn around and sell it anytime if I ever wanted to because there aren't many pieces like it in this area. In fact; I could probably turn around and sell it to one of the other people who missed out on buying it because they tried to squeeze the seller out of that last few thousand dollars. I know two of them that are kicking themselves in the butt right now, and would gladly give me at least what I paid for it.
My friend approached me a few weeks ago and told me that if I wanted his boat he would sell it to me for a bottom line price of X amount of dollars. It's an express style, and I really wanted a flybridge next time around. But the express does offer certain advantages. I'm sort of weighing my options now and trying to decide if the flybridge is really that important to me. But the point is that like most people I don't want to own both boats at the same time. So, I've decided that if I go for my friends boat, I'm going to advertise mine at a really low price. It's worth more, and I can easily get more if I held out just a little. But holding out might mean that I miss the chance to save a pile of money on the next one. Much more than the hit I'd take on this one. To me, it's a no brainer. I'm more than willing to give it away at a really low price if it means getting a really great deal on the other end.

 

[Gunn]

I too am in the market for a 280DA (pre-approved financing, ready to buy), but the market seems to be moving pretty well around here, at reasonable prices. Meaning, I am not seeing any great deals much below what the NADA website is showing.

Put an offer on one boat, it was not accepted, then it was sold two weeks later. Having trouble finding exactly what we want in the Chesapeake area as they seem to be moving pretty well.

Tom

 

[Rocket]

Our local Marine Max has about 15 used boats for sale and not many brokerage boats. Used boats by us are moving, at decent numbers too. New boats are not selling so well.

 

[MonacoMike]

“Where I live boats are selling at half of they're worth.
No one has any money for the toys.”

Boats are selling for what they are worth and always have. Any boat that is well exposed to the market will sell for market value. Many times in boats, homes, cars, etc. we assign perceived value or what it used to be worth to today. Some brag about a “steal” they got on a repo boat. That “steal” came with risk that made the purchase price true market value. Others say “I sold my repo boat for more than I paid so I bought under market value”. You sold with a different set of risks and values so the market says.

As far as the market today the truly wealthy can still buy what they wish. People who purchase toys based on income have had a moment of zen and are pulling their horns in. The purchasers of larger boats that stretched the limits to buy can’t get financed and the pool of buyers shrinks. The owners of 330s reduce to entice buyers of 320s to move up and it happens all through the line.

With financing being so difficult to obtain some are pursuing smaller boats and paying cash. In my experience (not with boats) people who pay cash negotiate a tough deal. Dealers I have spoken to are indicating smaller boats have interest and sales but it is tough for larger boats which will continue to be a drag on the whole market.

JMV225 gave good advice that selling a smaller boat to move up will allow you to benefit if the percentage of original retail is similar.

Good luck in your search Matt

MM

 

[fwebster]

Don't over look trying to trade good clean boats to your Sea Ray dealer. It means negotiating well, but around here the dealers do have some customers and there is financing $ available...........but the dealers have nothing to sell. Our dealer would love a nice clean SD or BR, or 10-12 of them and he puts decent money in them when a trade does come up.

Sea Ray has also changed their batching process for new boat construction. That has created some no inventory situations for dealers who did not order early. It has not always been the case but SR is now facilitating the exchange of boats between dealers and the dealers are willing to swap boats because that is what it takes to get inventory in some situations.

So you have some leveredge with the local dealer............"I'm going to trade for a 260DA, but you don't have one and I have a super clean 210 SEL. I am ready to trade today..........how do you suggest we proceed?" When they quote a price and trot out the NADA book to justify stealing your trade, say NO and make them a counter offer. If the numbers don't make sense after an hour or negotiating, get up and leave.