Do i need to warm up engines before adding reppop

Discussion in 'Winterizing' started by BarryJ, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. BarryJ

    BarryJ New Member

    2
    Nov 4, 2018
    1999 340 Sundancer
    7.4L Inboards
    Hello this is my first year winterizing my new 340 searay Sundancer 1999 with twin 7.4 L Bluewater in board engines using raw water cooling... And the question I have is this: do I need to start up the engines using fresh water and let them warm up so the thermostat opens before I add the anti freeze red pop? I plan on using the plunger under the boat method with a 5 gallon bucket to suck in the antifreeze red pop but I'm a little concerned if the thermostat is not open right away it won't get all the redpop hrough the engine block... would it be sufficient if I started right off with the red pop until it came out the exhaust? Or do I need to run fresh water for 5 minutes?
     
  2. JimG

    JimG Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2008
    Southern WV
    2007 310 DA
    Kohler 5ECD
    Twin 350 Mags
    Raw Water Cooled
    V-Drives
    Doing that way, yes warm it up first. Or you could pull the t-stat out.

    I just did mine Sunday... I pull all of the blue plugs out, drain the water, put the plugs back in, and then pour the "red pop" in through the t-stat housing.

    Welcome to CSR!
     
    JVM225 likes this.
  3. BarryJ

    BarryJ New Member

    2
    Nov 4, 2018
    1999 340 Sundancer
    7.4L Inboards
    Yes, i emoved the blue plugs on the risers and drained that water. I am trying to make this as easy as possible and getting to the engines is very tight on this 340 Sea Ray they really packed them in... I'm trying to decide if getting that thermostat opener removed is even necessary... And trying to decide if it's easier to remove the thermostat or pump freshwater in from the canal since they already turn the water spickets off for freshwater, and let engines run for 5minutes????
     
  4. Lazy Daze

    Lazy Daze Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Apr 21, 2009
    PA
    Various
    Various
    This feels like deja-vue as there was another, almost identical, question earlier today. BUT, you need to drain the engine, intake hose/raw water pump and manifolds, first. There is nothing that needs to be drained via the risers - but those other things must be done. Otherwise you end up some % of a mix of AF:Water. The only safe way to pump the AF in via a bucket of AF on the outside is to first remove the t-stat as it will start to close.

    How will you be fogging the engine? It's impossible to do that while doing the bucket of AF method... unless you have carb'd engines.

    The other way - and the guaranteed-to-work way - is to simply pour the AF in through the t-stat hoses (Jim mentioned this way, too). engine does not need to be running, so... fog, drain, fill, done.

    Oh... "plunger"... if you go the "remove t-stat and bucket method"... you could also pour the AF in through your opened sea strainer.
     
  5. Bt Doctur

    Bt Doctur Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2010
    New Jersey
    Ex SRV 240 Weekender twin
    in between
    Without draining everything first puts you at risk from freeze damage.Once drained you can simply pour the A/F into the engine and manifolds
     
  6. douglee25

    douglee25 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Boatless
    Big ones!
    Personal preference but I was never a fan of the warm up and then suck antifreeze in method. In my opinion you can never be 100% sure the thermostat is open and therefore, I opt to remove it altogether. It's $1 gasket and a few more minutes of your time.
     
  7. Larry

    Larry Active Member

    Oct 19, 2006
    Oakland, NJ
    2004 42 Sundancer
    Hydraulic platform
    Cockpit air
    KVH M3
    450hp Cummins
    All information above is correct, even running the motor for 5 minutes as you stated is no guarantee of opening up the Tstat. Your only option today will be removing the Tstat and filling through there.
     
  8. paulswagelock

    paulswagelock Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    pa
    2018 SDX 270 OB 300 Verado
    Verado 300
    If you drain the system thoroughly first, you can run the boat on antifreeze cold and everything is fine, the block will be full of AF. However, if you fail to thoroughly drain it, there is no way to be certain if the tstat is open, meaning the block has some water in it. Running on AF will dilute the AF. However, even if you poured it directly in, if it was not thoroughly drained, you still have the dilution issue.
    Draining the system thoroughly is the key with either method.
     
  9. midexp

    midexp Active Member

    129
    Oct 5, 2016
    Harrison Township, Michigan Lake St.Clair
    1999 40' Sundancer
    454 merc
    I am helping Berry with this. Here's some of his problems. He has basically no access to the hoses that connect to the through hull strainers. Same with the air conditioner. Not sure if others with the 34 DA have found a way (this is a 1999)? We didn't look, but I'm guessing there's very little or no access to the hoses that connect to the accessory drive driven pumps. Not sure about getting to the water pump hoses that needs to be drained on the front of the engine? And if he did have access, I'm guessing they've never been removed and getting them off (and finding the leverage to pull on them) will be difficult. Pulling hoses and draining petcocks and filling engines through T-stat is not preferred

    So the plan will be to remove the thermostats, hook up one of these toilet plunger devices to the bottom of the hull sea strainer, start engines and pump 5 gallons of AF through the engine. Berry bought the -50, I use the -100. I don't see a need to drain the blocks as the 5 gallons of AF we're drawing in will easily displacement the water in the block.

    As far as fogging, I've never done this is 25 years of boating and never had an issue. If the boat was laid up for several years, I'd say yes fog. Not saying fogging is bad, just maybe not necessary?
     
  10. Lazy Daze

    Lazy Daze Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Apr 21, 2009
    PA
    Various
    Various
    Fogging... It's not like the engine is going to immediately die if it doesn't get fogged. This is more of a cumulative thing. It's a "best practice" thing and, while I won't speak to anyone's skill level, I'll just say that if you're comfortable working around these engines it doesn't take long at all.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention... a major reason for fogging centers around fuel injected engines, as well. MPI, even more so than EFI/TBI. The cocktail mixture we use to fog will treat that last, tiny drop of fuel that sits on the tip of the injector. It helps to keep it from turning to varnish/gumming up over the 5 months that it sits there.

    For fear of repeating myself (or others)... to be "guaranteed" protected from a cracked block/manifold/etc, you MUST fully drain. Otherwise you end up with some sort of mix and there's really no way to check it fully. I don't doubt that there's people who say they don't fully drain and they don't have any problems. BUT, I can tell you from experience, that EVERY YEAR we get some business by replacing cracked blocks in the Spring - some due to not winterizing at all, some due to not draining before pumping AF in. In the 3 decades I've been working in this business, and the average of 350 to 400 winterizings we do every Fall... never has one come back to us in the Spring for a cracked block.

    Yes, I don't envy you - working on big blocks in a v-drive boat. I know it's not "easy" to get to the front of the engines, but it can be done - just have to figure out the right way to either shimmy back between the engines or lay over top with a board. It's all doable - but it also depends on each of our "comfort level" for working on, under, over and around the engines. To be honest, I'd rather work on a 340DA than some single engine v-drive ski boats. And, yes, sometimes you are doing things by "feel" only.

    There's no mal intent here, but if you're not capable of doing things the proper way to ensure a safe, Winter sleep... is it really worth saving the couple hundred bucks it would cost (per engine, of course) to hire someone, to risk the couple thousands it would cost to replace something in the Spring?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  11. rcknecht

    rcknecht Active Member

    Mar 23, 2009
    toms river,nj
    340 Sundancer 2001
    T 454 MPI
    I have 7.4 MPIs with RWC in my 01 340... for me there is no need to wait on the T-Stat to open or pull it... Because I have MPIs I sometime have added 2 stroke oil to my fuel filters, and sometime I did nothing... Never had a problem... Fof the record I do run fresh water through the engines just to clean out the salt and silt before I winterize.
     
  12. douglee25

    douglee25 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Boatless
    Big ones!
    If you have a raw water cooled engine, you most certaintly do have to wait until it's warm or pull the thermostat during winterization.
     
  13. rcknecht

    rcknecht Active Member

    Mar 23, 2009
    toms river,nj
    340 Sundancer 2001
    T 454 MPI
    I misspoke, I have FWC engines...
     
  14. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 741, 742, 8212, 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    That's the opposite of mal intent. That's the question that every DIY'er must ask himself. The first time I winterized an I/O (25 years ago), I found a cracked exhaust manifold in the spring. To this day, I consider that a cheap lesson!
     
  15. JimG

    JimG Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2008
    Southern WV
    2007 310 DA
    Kohler 5ECD
    Twin 350 Mags
    Raw Water Cooled
    V-Drives
    My water cooling pumps have 2 blue plugs each... while I can't see them, I lay across the motors and blindly reach, and remove them to drain the water. There is also a blue plug on each of the water distribution housings... while laying across the motors, I can see them and remove. That said... his 99' may not have the same plugs. On my previous boat with the 454, there were 2 blue plugs on the bottom of the block, one each side.
     

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