Difference between Pump-Out Head and Vacuflush?

[dsteele1]

Hi!

I'm new to this head stuff!

I need some help figuring out the differences between the portable, pump-out and vacuflush head options. Does the pump-out head have a holding tank? What toilet paper do you use? What chemicals are involved? How does each work? :smt100

 

[jwfoster4]

A portable is a self contained unit that usually sits under a console or in a storage area and has the seat and small holding tank all in one. You carry it off the boat to dump. Used when there is no built in head on a boat.

When you say "pump out", I assume you mean a manual flush. You manually pump the waste from the head to a holding tank.

A vacuflush is what I have and am most familiar with. Their is an electrically powered vacuum pump that keeps a constant vacuum on the waste line. When you activate the flush, the vacuum pulls the waste to the holding tank and then the pump kicks on and creates a new vacuum.

Most all recreational boats with a head will have a holding tank of some size. Some older boats had a direct over the side discharge, but those are outlawed now.

Others with more experience can expand on this, but those are the basics.

 

[JVM225]

It's best to use TP designed for marine or RV use. It breaks down faster and is less likely to clog the system.
Most Marine or RV supply stores sell deodorizers for the holding tanks. I've found them all to be about the same. The latest one I'm going to try is a product called Campa-Chem that I bought in Wal-Mart. This particular version is supposed to be more natural and is only available at Wal-Mart.
I know that it isn't supposed to matter, and some say the deodorizers are supposed to work better with solid waste, but my rule of thumb is the head is used for solid waste only in emergencies when nothing else is available.

 

[gredmer]

The pumpout type is usually a port-a-pottie that is mounted in the boat and the pumpout is a external connection where you connect the dockside pump to pump empty your holding tank.

 

[fc3]

Everything you need to know:

http://www.dometicsanitation.com/vf.asp

 

[Fishnut]

What's the difference? My admiral has never been so happy boating since she has had a vacuflush. It will improve your love life to have a vacuflush by two fold.

 

[roger275]

I hope this question applies here. I just got my 2004 280DA and the book says there's an optional seacock to pump out through the hull into allowed areas (I assume offshore a ways). Mine does not seem to have this option so will require the pump out station adaptor. But, when we're offshore and its legal, is there a compact pump offered for manual or battery powered pump-out?

Thanks!

 

[Alegria]

What's the difference? My admiral has never been so happy boating since she has had a vacuflush. It will improve your love life to have a vacuflush by two fold.

+1

Having come from a manual porta pot plumbed up to a deck pump out to a Vacuflush is like night and day. The wife loves using the head now, even will take a shower in there...

If I had the choice its Vacuflush.... no brainer. There is some added maintainence around keeping seals clean and duckbill values (do a search on that term:thumbsup But the over all user experience is great...

 

[gerryb]

I hope this question applies here. I just got my 2004 280DA and the book says there's an optional seacock to pump out through the hull into allowed areas (I assume offshore a ways). Mine does not seem to have this option so will require the pump out station adaptor. But, when we're offshore and its legal, is there a compact pump offered for manual or battery powered pump-out?

Thanks!

A macerator pump can be added to allow for legal discharge 3+ miles off shore. It is an option on the 280. I wouldn't recommend it as a post-factory upgrade unless pump-outs are very hard to come-by where you boat. Won't be cheap either: you'll need the pump, Y valve, thru-hull fitting and a couple pieces of discharge tubing. Probably close to $400 if you do all the work yourself, $600+ if done by a dealer. The good news is that the wiring and switches are on the 280 as stock.

 

[Morpheus]

Regulations I believe require you to be 3+ miles off shore before you pump out.

 

[roger275]

A macerator pump can be added to allow for legal discharge 3+ miles off shore. It is an option on the 280. I wouldn't recommend it as a post-factory upgrade unless pump-outs are very hard to come-by where you boat. Won't be cheap either: you'll need the pump, Y valve, thru-hull fitting and a couple pieces of discharge tubing. Probably close to $400 if you do all the work yourself, $600+ if done by a dealer. The good news is that the wiring and switches are on the 280 as stock.

Thanks, but I've got the macerator already. The system goes: Vacuflush to macerator, to holding tank, to pumpout fitting. The book said additional option was the pump out through a seacock for the 3 miles out discharge. I'd like to know if there's another way to pump out (3 miles offshore) without the seacock; like a hand pump or electric pump. We're planning to travel up east coast and it'll be a pain to have to find a pump out station as part of the routine. Thanks again!

 

[Henry Boyd]

Roger,
You are missing something. if You have a factory set up macerator discharge pump, on the top of the holding tank (the big one that is under the wet bar) there will be the pump with a hose coming to the pump from the top of the tank, and a hose going out of the pump to a seacock. The seacock will have an electric switch that is tripped when the valve is opened. If you do not have a pump mounted on the the holding tank you are possibly mis-identifying something as a 'macerator' pump.

You may be confusing the vacuum pump with a 'macerator' pump.

To answer your question, yes you can install a manual pump to pump out the holding tank. But the labor will be the same and an electric pump will cost about $ 175 from West and a manual pump of sufficient suction and volume will cost darn near the same thing. AND, you will have to crawl down in the engine compartment when out 3 miles and pump the thing by hand. Does not sound like a good plan to me.

Also keep in mind the "3 miles" out is not always 3 miles because the reg is 3 miles in all directions and because the coastline is not straight you have to go out farther.

I wouldn't recommend adding the pump out capability if you don't already have it. Even before the tree huggers took over the government there was a great deal of momentum working towards making holding tank dumping at sea more onerous and expensive.

Henry

 

[roger275]

Henry,

Thanks and you are correct. There's 4 unused threaded inserts on top of my holding tank that must be for the macerator discharge pump. I thought the vaccuum pump was it. We're planning a long trip in this boat. Do you have any idea how many flushes you get with this holding tank?

Roger

Roger,
You are missing something. if You have a factory set up macerator discharge pump, on the top of the holding tank (the big one that is under the wet bar) there will be the pump with a hose coming to the pump from the top of the tank, and a hose going out of the pump to a seacock. The seacock will have an electric switch that is tripped when the valve is opened. If you do not have a pump mounted on the the holding tank you are possibly mis-identifying something as a 'macerator' pump.

You may be confusing the vacuum pump with a 'macerator' pump.

To answer your question, yes you can install a manual pump to pump out the holding tank. But the labor will be the same and an electric pump will cost about $ 175 from West and a manual pump of sufficient suction and volume will cost darn near the same thing. AND, you will have to crawl down in the engine compartment when out 3 miles and pump the thing by hand. Does not sound like a good plan to me.

Also keep in mind the "3 miles" out is not always 3 miles because the reg is 3 miles in all directions and because the coastline is not straight you have to go out farther.

I wouldn't recommend adding the pump out capability if you don't already have it. Even before the tree huggers took over the government there was a great deal of momentum working towards making holding tank dumping at sea more onerous and expensive.

Henry

 

[Summerwind]

What's the difference? My admiral has never been so happy boating since she has had a vacuflush. It will improve your love life to have a vacuflush by two fold.

Amen :thumbsup:

A Pump out head (every once of life) :smt021 is what the admiral would have done to me if we didnt have vacuflush.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Henry,

Thanks and you are correct. There's 4 unused threaded inserts on top of my holding tank that must be for the macerator discharge pump. I thought the vaccuum pump was it. We're planning a long trip in this boat. Do you have any idea how many flushes you get with this holding tank?

Roger

Roger,

Sorry I don't have that data. But I think you might want to think more on the input side. On weekends we have never had to return because of a full holding tank, but on a number of occasions have had to go in search of water for the water tank.

I suggest you get hold of the various coastal cruising guides that will cover your itinerary. These will show ports and marina facilities, gas docks (as well as fresh water and pump out locations), as well as points of general interest. You are going to have to plan fuel stops, you might as well add pump outs and fresh water fill ups as well.

Henry

 

[Asureyez]

Since Gary has donned me the King of Crap, I’ll try to sort out this discussion little better: First I want to get some basic concepts of nomenclature down.

As a back light on the subject. All vessels made and or sold in the US in the modern era, with a toilet aboard have been required to have either:

1. A permanently installed holding tank toilet system fitted for "PUMP OUT" in to a shore side sewage system. Thus system consists of a holding tank for the effluent and a piping system going to a deck fitting where a shore side vacuum pump is fitted to suck out the waste. (This system must not automatically DISCHARGE in to the ambient water, Irrespective of this fixed system being a Vacuflush or a Manual Pump or electric pump system, the effluent goes to a holding tank); or

2. A portable toilet with a removable holding tank which can be transported off the vessel and emptied in a normal shore side facility attached to the human waste sewage system (toilet).

3. Boats are not required to actually have any toilet facility at all and humans are not prohibited from taking a dump directly into the water. It is only the boat that can not discharge into the water. So you could in theory "hang it" over the side and comply with the law. (I see this in Key West where a shrouded seat is slung over the side of boat on long term anchorage vessels). That said, a cedar bucket/chamber pot may not be dumped overboard.

So your fixed toilet installation or portable is NOT allowed to directly DISCHARGE into the lakes, rivers and coastal waters anywhere in the United States, period. For those boaters cruising in the ocean waters and when offshore 3 or more miles may discharge (empty) their holding tanks directly into the ocean. Discharge is not allowed anywher ein the Great Lakes (I knew you would ask).

If you are not offshore as described, you must only empty the holding tank by marine pump out facility, or removal of the tank to a shore side sewage facility (toilet).

So Pump Out = describes the fixed tank and plumbing system that is emptied by marine sanitation station facilities on the shore, or by removal from the vessel and emptied into a human waste sewage system.

Y-Valve arrangement allows boats to either DISCHARGE directly into the ambient water or to a holding tank, by selecting the valve position. The presence of a Y-Valve does not automatically permit lawful DISCHARGE into the local water.

Macerator Pumps: Some boats have holding tank arrangements where the tank can be emptied either in to the sea where lawfully permitted, or to a shore side Pump Out facility. The macerator pump is plumbed between the holding tank and the discharge seacock. When the valves are properly positioned the macerator pump will extract the tank contents and reduce the size of the effluent to a size permitted for discharge outside the 3 mile limit but within the 12 mile limit of US Coastal areas (no chunks allowed). The macerator pump serves no other purpose and does not find it’s use in pumping the holding tank(s) into a shore side facility.

VacuFlush: Is a waste management system that removes waste from toilets using a strong vacuum to move the waste into the holding tank. This system is fed fresh water from the ships systems and uses a small amount of water in the process. The number of flushes available between pump outs is determined by the size of the holding tank.

Manual Pump: is a waste system where a hand lever drives piston plunger that first pumps water (frequently ambiant sea water) in to the bowl on one stroke and sucks out waste on the reverse. Each stroke advances the waste towards the holding tank for storage and removal. The waste lines will retain a signficant about of waste until it reaches the tank. These systems generate significantly more volume as the added sea water per flush is much more than a Vacuflush system. Holding tanks will fill much more quickly in these systems.

Electric Pump: Similar to the manual system except the mechanism is driven by electric pumps to remove waste from the bowl and drive it to the holding tank. Large volumes of water are used and holding tanks fill quickly.

A boat that is only to be used in the the Great and Inland lakes, rivers and coastal waters has no need for a Y-Valve, macerator, overboard discharge system. Why? There is no place in those cruising areas such discharge is permitted.

So, there ya go, Happy Crapping :smt038

 

[tobnpr]

Good info above.
Not related to the OP's question, but I'll add that Type 1 MSD's are another option. Discharge anywhere except designated no-discharge zones.
No worry about pumpouts or trips offshore. I wouldn't be without one.

 

[Nehalennia]

.......Since Gary has donned me the King of Crap, I’ll try to sort out this discussion little better: ........

Well I understand why he donned you that now.

 

[mistercomputerman]

Henry,

Thanks and you are correct. There's 4 unused threaded inserts on top of my holding tank that must be for the macerator discharge pump. I thought the vaccuum pump was it. We're planning a long trip in this boat. Do you have any idea how many flushes you get with this holding tank?

Roger

Roger

Why We Like VacuFlush® Technology

These systems are rated at about 1 pint (.5 liter) per flush! Regular marine toilets use about 1.14 gallons (4.31 liters) per flush. Using a small 20 gallon holding tank as an example, thats 59 flushes witha VacuFlush® vs. 18 flushes for a traditional marine toilet. This amounts to more than tripling the capacity of your existing holding tank (functional capacity is increased by 320%).
At Conlyn Marine, we think this is just amazing. We're very enthusiastic about this product and we've installed quite a few. Our customers love them! If you visit our offices, the first thing you will see as you enter is a VacuFlush® that we've set up as a demo. Its impressive and we want you to see it in action. Stop in and we'll show you, but VacuFlush's Flash demo below is the next best thing. We'd like to thank the folks at VacuFlush® for allowing us use material from heir very helpful and informative site.​

 

[Asureyez]

On the MSD Type 1, I didn't mention them as they are more rare as the days pass. Common brand is "Lectra/san", and these devices are a multi reservoir tank system which macerates waste human waste and electrically creates chlorine to sanitize the waste product. These systems were designed for direct discharge of treated waste into the ambient water.

Here is what such a system looks like:

http://www.raritaneng.com/pdf_files/lectrasan/L1030Lectrasanv0203.pdf

These systems have been around for a long time, and work as reliably as many others, but the need for a holding tank is rarely overcome. Most management of marinas, inland lakes and even rivers have instituted No Discharge regs just for these units. Before installing one a skipper would want to make very sure direct discharge was permitted in the primary cruising grounds.

This type of waste handing system will typically be coupled with a manual pumping head (or an electrified unit).