Delamination of fiberglass caused by water seepage

[soft top]

New to site, having just purchased a 1999 28 SS in the spring.

I have come across a problem and wonder how common it is and if anybody has had any experience with the some. As my user name may indicate, I have found a soft spot around the topside hatch caused by water penertration through the neoprane gasket that was used under the hatch as a sealant. As a result, the water peneratrated the fiberglass on the topside causing extensive damage for which I have been quoted $5800 to repair. There has been no damage or seepage into the cabin and nothing is visable from the inside. I spoke with my insurance company only to be informed the my policy does not cover any damage or delamination caused by water seepage as the consider it to be wear and tear over a period of time. Contacted Sea Ray, put in touch with a customer service rep who informed me that at the time of manufacture the hatch was installed with a good grade marine sealant and that the maintainance of such is the responsibility of the owner. I do understand that the boat is 10 years old and out of warranty however I am still somewhat in a state of disbelief that a boat with the price tag of a Sea Ray could have a hatch installed without the use of a marine grade caulking as a sealant.

Two people, the insurance adjuster who is also a marine surveyor and a rep from a Sea Ray dealer that I contacted, told me that this was a problem that boats built at that time by Sea Ray encounted. The Sea Ray dealer told me that they were aware that it was a problem and that it was be handled on a case by case basis under warranty as the problems presented themselves.

So here is my question Has anyone else experienced this problem and if so did Sea Ray acknowledge that it was a problem?

As far as the actual damage being repaired, my boat is presently at a local fiberglass repair shop and has a 6' by 6' hole cut out of the topside to facilitate access to the balsa core that has been completly rotted out from the water that entered through the hatch opening. I have pictures that I will post showing all the damage when my daughter is home as I don't know how to do this myself. Don't know if it was just a coincidence or not but when my boat was dropped off for repair the shop was accepting another Sea Ray one year older with the same problem.

Hope the post wasn't too long and look forward to hearing from anybody with the same experiences. THANKS

 

[quality time]

I'll be the first to ask, did you have the boat surveyed prior to purchase?

 

[Dave S]

Soft Top

I have seen quite a few postings on our board over the last couple of years that involved water intrusion into cored surfaces. You might try and do a Search to find some of them.

For instance, here is a picture posted by member RobF300 of damage from a leaky horn and what it did to a section of decking on a 31SS. Rob was repairing that damage.

You can read the entire post here. http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12198

I guess what I am saying is these problems do occur. I had a leak thru my bow railing about a year ago which makes me wonder how well that is sealed too and this on a boat that was only a year old at the time. All of that area is cored so it is a concern for me.

I would certainly recommend you have other areas of your decking checked with a moisture meter as well as long as they are doing the hatch repair. Maybe some of the other more experienced members can give you some advice on whether there is any way to get Sea Ray to help on this one even though they have apparently said no for now.

Dave

 

[vernh59]

This isn't a Sea Ray problem. Even the big boys have had problems with water intrusion especially on the cored hulls.

 

[tmhudson2]

This isn't a Sea Ray problem. Even the big boys have had problems with water intrusion especially on the cored hulls.

When we purchased our boat, there was a Jefferson MY from the late '90s docked alongside at the selling dealer; its entire foredeck was spongey from water intrusion penetrating the core material, and an otherwise beautiful boat was facing tens of thousands to repair. Our surveyor, using a moisture meter, found a little moisture in the area surrounding the foredeck hatch, and the selling dealer removed and rebedded the hatch prior to delivery; the surveyor knew what to look for.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Just a question, how is this repaired? Is the top skin removed and then glued back down once the old core has been replaced?

Henry

 

[fwebster]

Matching the deck non-skip is never easy and can be a terrible job that may involve re-glassing the entire deck to get a match. Most fiberglass guys will save the top layer and glass it back to the repaired spot, or use it to make a mold for the repair. That way, they only have the seam around the edge to match the non-skid on.

 

[soft top]

Thanks for the info recieved so far.

As for the survey, no I didn't and I have learned learned the hard way the value of a proper marine survey. Prior to purchase I had the boat inspected by my mechanic, who did a thorough job on the mechanical end and I chose not to bother with a survey since the boat appeared to be in showroom condition while being 9 years old. Having been a boat owner for 18 years before this purchase I believed that I knew enough of what to look for as long as the mechanical end was checked by my regular guy. Guess I was wrong and it will cost me a few bucks.:smt021

As far as the way it is being repaired the foredeck is removed with a shallow cut from a small saw as is shown in a previous post and then the rotted balsa core material is removed, the area cleaned out down to the original interior material that the wood is bonded to and then the reinstallation of the core is started. Unlike the original factory insallation which ran the balsa wood right up to the hatch opening, which I believe is done that way since the hatch is cut out after the full foredeck is framed and glassed, the repair will have a 1 inch wide strip of non absorbant material framed around the hatch opening before the balsa wood starts to prevent this from happening again. The problem with the balsa core is that it absorbs the water rather then insullating the foredeck which would causes the water to leak into the cabin making the leak easy to spot.

In closing let me say that while I am extremely happy :smt038with the boat that I purchased in spite out this and plan to keep and enjoy it for many years, I am still somewhat confused as to how Sea Ray could have known that this was a problem and not have told the people who purchased these boats. Boat that carry the price tag of a Sea Ray should not have design problems left unchanged or unacknowledged. I know that the two previous boat that I owned, and 1987 21'Bayliner Capri and a 1989 235 Four Winns Sundowner both had hatches that were caulked in and never leaked and I don't understand how Sea Ray would let a piece of neoprene protect a vulnerable balsa core that could lead to such extensive damage.

Again, thanks for the info and look forward to using this site in the future.

 

[tobnpr]

The prior boats you mention may not have had a cored topside because they were much smaller boats.

SR has a bad reputation in this area. I've heard of late model yachts where the engine vents were simply cut into the cored hullsides without them being sealed- and requiring removal of the skin on the side of the boat.

When you refer to a 1" strip of non absorbent material, you're probably referring to "potting" the penetration. When the opening is large enough, you remove (scrape out) the balsa core around the opening, then fill the void between the laminates with a thickened epoxy mixture. That way if there is a leak in the sealant the moisture can't get to the balsa core. If I need to through bolt a cored deck, (small hole, no room to remove the coring), I'll overdrill the hole by one size and thoroughly coat the inside of the hole/balsa using a pipe cleaner dipped in epoxy. The balsa will soak up the epoxy and prevent moisture from doing so.

I'm going to pull my bowrails, the rails running along the cabin top, and the hatches as soon as the weather cools.

 

[soft top]

tobnpr thanks again

I also had the fiberglass guys remove the windlass, foot control switches and anchor mount even though the water had not reached quite that far to seal the openings and bolt throughs to prevent future problems.

Since the weather has already changed up here in the northeast I will have to look into the railings and other potential trouble spots in the spring.

 

[wileecoyote]

Tobnpr, I'm sure you have seen from my posts I am in the process of removing and rebedding my Bow stanchions. Are yours run through a cored section, or is it solid where the bolts go through? I can't remember where, but I thought someone had told me when they did theirs that it was solid fiberglass in that section. I'm waiting for weather to get warmer to actually remove the bolts and rebed the bases, but was wondering if I should plan to overdrill and epoxy. The way I had seen it done is with the bent nail to remove core and place tape underneath. Then pour in epoxy to set in that area (similar to what is being done with the hatch repair) then rebolt through the solid epoxy, hopefully stopping the core from rotting.

 

[tobnpr]

I know for a fact that at least the very end of the rails (towards the cockpit) on mine are on a plywood cored walkway- the one on my starboard side has the coring rotted out and I need to remove the side panel to gain access to cut it out and replace it. I can feel the soft spot when walking alongside... I haven't tried to rebed the rest of them yet, but at least there's no soft spots and no evidence of leakage around the bolts in the overhead below (all are visible).

I got smart and realized that by removing the plastic trim ring around the interior of the hatches that I could shine a light up in the "gap" to see if there was any moisture intrusion around the edges. The holes are over-cut about 1/8" or so all the way around so I could see up inside. Fortunately, all was good up there.

Overdrilling the hole and filling with solid epoxy, then redrilling is a great idea. Just be sure overdrilling doesn't leave you with the epoxy exposed when you bolt the bases back down. I've got carpet on the inside around all of mine, so taping the bottom wouldn't work. If that's the case mix up the epoxy with some cabosil thickener to something like a mayonnaise consistency that you can press into the hole without it running out like straight liquid epoxy would.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.