Cruisair? With small generator?

MonacoMike said:
Good luck to you, hope I do not hear how someone suffered a serious misfortune following the advice of the pro portable generator crowd on this forum. I prefer being in the pro safety crowd...

MM
Click to expand...


I'm still curious as to how you have determined that using a generator above deck is a safety hazard. Do you have a gas stove or BBq on board? We have both. Seems safe to me. Please explain.
 
I once put my Honda 1000 on the front deck when anchored. I ran it and you could smell the exhaust in the boat. I stopped using it after that.
 
My last post in this thread:

This is a previous post from the most knowledgeable member of CSR, Frank Webster:

fwebster said:
I posted this a couple of times in the past, but can’t seem to find it. These posts were in threads asking about portables and comparing them to permanent mount marine generators. I just don’t want to argue with folks who don’t seem grasp the total risk in using portables on boats. For me, its about understanding the risk, then making a smart decision, not about arguing ad infinitum on an internet forum. So here are the comments I posted but happened to save. Maybe they will answer your questions: (hope the formatting works)

Post #1: about portable generator risks-

1.Carbon Monoxide (CO) is present with all generators, but on portables, the exhaust is discharged at the generator, within an inch or so of the exhaust port on the cylinder. The exhaust system on a portable generator is usually constructed of non-marine alloys that can rust through after brief exposure to a salt water environment.ﰀ There is no engineered system to remove the exhaust from near occupied spaces. When placed on a swim platform, normal air flow can cause a station wagon effect and suck CO into the cockpit or cabin. While the same problem may exist with marine generators, the exhaust is mixed with cooling water and is discharged well away from occupied space at or near the waterline and is usually cleared by wind or sea breezes.


2. Fuel Systems on Honda's and other portables are vented to the atmosphere, not internally as with marine generator installations. That means explosive gasoline vapor is released at the generator, usually through a vent in the fuel fill cap. There is also the risk of a fuel spill if the generator is upset or you encounter rough seas or a large wake when the generator is close to full.

Their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled.

Portable generators has simple fuel fittings and single ply fuel lines attached with hose clamps, both are substantial risks to fuel leakage if the generator isn’t new and has been around a while. Marine generators have USCG approved double ply braided fuel lines with swaged on end fittings that thread into the generator fuel pump.

3. Ignition Protection – None of the electrical components on portables are ignition protected. Marine generator electrical components are.

4. Shock Hazard Exposure –Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire. Yes, most portables sold today have 3-wire systems. Where the problem lies is that the portable generator is not part of the global ground when you plug in. When you plug into shore power you are also plugging into the ground for the entire local power system. When using a stationary mounted marine generator away from the dock, your boat is its own ground system. Even if the portable has GFI circuitry, they won’t work if there isn’t a continuous ground system. I think real risk here is that while the boat owner may understand grounding, not everyone on the boat….kids, wives, girl friends, helpful (?)guests…..usually don’t.

Additionally, most portable generators now use invertors. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded to the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally should not.





Post #2: Its not about whose right or wrong, but about understanding the risks.

For me this whole discussion is not about who does what, how they try to suffocate themselves or blow themselves up, but it is about our responsibility as knowledgeable boaters to help others, who are not as experienced, learn from what is posted on CSR. Almost anything we do in life has some risk associated with it. Just because my car has 180 on the speedometer doesn't mean I drive that fast. Safe boating is all about fully understanding risk and avoiding all the risky behavior that you can.

When we advocate taking unnecessary risks, what kind of example are we setting for those who are new to the sport or who are non-technical and just want take their family boating?

However, I do get weary of these discussions turning into World War III when some of the more experienced CSR members take the time to answer an innocent question about using portable generators on boats with irrefutable facts. Because some of you have used portable generators and have not yet blown your ass off or asphyxiated your families does not make me wrong, elitist, stupid or corny, any more than it makes you right.

Honestly, I think part of the check and balance on the accuracy of the information contained on CSR is when the pros and cons on subjects like this are discussed. Those of us who feel that portable generators are inappropriate on boats would be negligent if we did not highlight the risks. I am also concerned enough about those risks that I would never agree with their use on a boat because of the potential liability.

And, for the record, I do own and regularly use a Honda EU series generator.......but the last place you will ever see it is on my boat.
Here is some interesting reading on this subject:

USCG warning Re: CO poisoning

http://www.doubleangel.org/documents...thFigures_.pdf


USCG circular 80

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC80.pdf


USCG circular 68

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/bscscan68a.pdf


USCG Alert on CO from generator exhaust

http://www.uscgboating.org/alerts/alertsview.aspx?id=8


Data on CO deaths:

http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/portgen.pdf


http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC74.pdf

Shows design and performance issues causing CO problems
Click to expand...
 
northern said:
I once put my Honda 1000 on the front deck when anchored. I ran it and you could smell the exhaust in the boat. I stopped using it after that.
Click to expand...


Wow. That's really scary..did you do anything like move the generator, or did you just give up?
 
MonacoMike said:
My last post in this thread:

This is a previous post from the most knowledgeable member of CSR, Frank Webster:
Click to expand...



Sorry, but I don't see how a single thing in your lengthy post even remotely applies to someone using a Honda generator to run anything on board. Simply nothing but unsubstantiated fear mongering based on a total lack of understanding of the safe use of portable generator.

Framing the arguement from the perspective of someone running the generator inside the cabin or placing it in the engine compartment is a complete red herring. Suggesting a Honda generator would rust out (this is laughable) from simply being brought into proximity of salt water is really a joke. Come on already. We can do better than this.
 
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