Costs of Ownership

[Kameroo]

We've been looking at a few bigger boats in the 42-46 foot range, and are looking for some numbers to determine cost of ownership. Specifically, does anybody have any numbers they budget for the annual maintenance on a pair of 20-year old Cat 3208's?

 

[JC3]

Kameroo, Are you looking at a 46 or what? JC

 

[fwebster]

Annual maintenance should be nothing more than oil, oil filter, fuel filter, Racor filter, and zinc annode changes. You will also have transmission oil changes to deal with, but you'd have that with any boat. I owned a gas 390EC for about 10 years and the annual cost to keep it running right was significantly higher than with my present diesel boat. However, regular maintenance is the key to avoiding high repair bills.

I don't know the oil capacity of 3208's but my 3116's take 6.5 Gal od oil each and the oil filters are about $10 ea......fuel filters are about $12 ea.. I refill my own zincs, and that is about $15 /year.

I think the bigger challenge in looking at a late 80's diesel is what maintenance has been "deferred". On diesels, neglecting maintenance will always catch up with you. With Cat's unit injection system...which is a superb design......you have valve and injectors to adjust, 3208's are v-8's so you have 2 heads per engine. Then there is water pump replacement.......they can only last so long. Heat exchangers need to be cleaned periodocially, and it is better to be ahead of the curve on that rather than letting an engine overheat. Antifreeze needs to be changed. Transmission oil coolers need to be cleaned, etc. A thorough engine survey by a Cat servicing dealer will answer a lot of those question for you.

I have a friend in Port. St. Joe FL that runs a pair of 3208's in a charter boat and he's at about 16,500 hours now. He does a good job of maintenance and his repairs over the last 10 years have been minimal...one injection pump , a starter nd a few injectors. Keep in mind that Caterpillar discontinued the 3208 in the early 90's because they could not meet EPA standards. Parts seem to be plentiful and reasonable priced (for Caterpillar!). These motors can be smoky if they are not right.

Hope that helps............

 

[Kameroo]

Thanks, that helps a lot.

Specifically, we have been looking in the low 40' range. Most boats here on the river are gas, and we know where we stand with those as far as power, maintenance and budgeting are concerned. We both really like the Jefferson 42 design (mid 80's), which we've seen with Cats and Perkins engines. I've been on the phone all morning getting some pretty good advice from people I trust locally.

My biggest concern with the diesels that old, as Frank referenced, would be their history. I have a maintence log and every receipt for my boat since 1999, and wish the boats I've been looking at had the same. I want to avoid $20,000 surprises.

As for the jump, we've decided to avoid an extra jump in size by just getting something that our large family and guests will have plenty of room on. There are lots of boats out there, and we're pretty patient about finding the right one. Houseboat not an option

 

[Alex D]

We've been looking at a few bigger boats in the 42-46 foot range, and are looking for some numbers to determine cost of ownership. Specifically, does anybody have any numbers they budget for the annual maintenance on a pair of 20-year old Cat 3208's?

That is very difficult to determine because it also directly depends on the prior maintenance of the boat.

Biggest cost variable that often catches people unprepared is the fuel cost ... we figure $3500 to $4000 for approx. 60 hrs./year

 

[Asureyez]

A Historical View on Costs

From a lifetime of experience of owning boats I've found that over the life of ownership of each specific boat, my cost has been 10% of value per year w/o depreciation. That includes fuel, routine maintenace, insurance, dock/slip fees, transient dockage, regular boat washing by others, monthly bottom scrubbing, and consumable replacements like carpet and canvas. No major repairs or replacements are in there.

That meant that a 300K boat was costing me appox 30K a year to own. But I use my boats approximately 200-250 hours year, as I live in So Florida and am on the water alot and I do not dock at my residence.

YMMV

 

[Kameroo]

Chad,

Interesting analysis. I will take that one step farther and say that a 20 year old $140K 42' boat would most likely have the same mechanical expenses, if not more, than it's brand new cousin, a $600K boat. Insurance, of course, would be less. So where does that leave us? :smt017

In all seriousness, I plan to pin down some more numbers next week (i.e., insurance, maintenance) for a much closer look. I had the 280 out this week, and couldn't help but think about how reasonable it has been to operate. Doesn't fix the desire to move up, however. On the river, we're averaging 50 hours per year.

We almost bought a used 390 Express Cruiser last winter. After seeing the expenses so far on a 42 Aft Cabin MY, and after considering what we actually need vs. what we want, an interim boat (older 390?) is looking better and better each day...

 

[Asureyez]

Inelastic

Some costs have nothing to do with age. Weekly boat washing by others, waxing, bottom scrubbing, haul outs, bottom paint, slip fees, fluid service costs, electricity at the dock, transient dockage, fuel burn, spares, canvas, carpets all this hit every owner every 3-5 years about the same.

Insurance is less given the lower agreed value old vs. newer boat.

I suspect the older boat might have a higher cost as a pct of cost.

perhaps others will offer up their hemorrhage stories?

 

[fwebster]

Insuring a 20 year old boat that is 50% bigger than your present boat could present problems.

Insurance companies will not cover older boats without a condition and value survey. Further, many times the underwriter will require repairs and perhaps some alterations to bring a boat up to what they consider safe by today's standards. It doesn't do any good to argue that when the boat was made what they want done wasn't required.......no one is going to force the insurance company cover the boat when they don't want to.

A lot of folks can't understand it, but most insurors will require that you have some level of experience in a boat pretty near the same size and equipment as the one you want coverage for. For them this is a big change.....28' outdrives to twin diesel inboard cabin/bridge boat. I have seen underwriters require that for a period of time you must take a licensed captain on the boat whenever you use it. A guy in Fla moved up to a 52 sportfisherman from a 32 Sundancer and his carrier required him to have a captain run the boat for the first 90 days he owned her. In your case, tell them what you drive at work..........I've never seen someone in your profession fail to get around the experience requirement.

 

[Kameroo]

Thanks, Frank.

My current insurance co. will not do >20 years, so my insurance broker is looking into a quote for me from another company. They think the size will not be a problem on inland waterways, and they'll get back to me on the rest.

Also, the lender wants more down and is charging a slightly higher rate for >20 years. I'd rather pay for depreciation than extra interest. Maybe they know something???

 

[fwebster]

Eric,

When you get to this sized boat, you need to be looking in the marine specialty market for an agreed value insurance policy. They are compleltely different than usual boat policies and underwriters appraise risk differently.

But you are way ahead of the game by being inland.............

 

[Kameroo]

Got some answers: In general:

Insurance no problem, at about $1400/year for a mid-80's Jefferson. Out of water survey required, but the rest is no big deal restricted to inland waterways.

Diesels? No problem unless they need rebuilt. More expensive oil changes and they run just great. Unless, of course, they were neglected--In that case it there is the risk of a rebuild or new engine or 2, which would get very expensive very quickly.

We started looking for answers thinking that we could get into a $110K Jefferson or similar from the mid-80's. We've figured out that we'll be better off in the short term with something a little smaller, then we'll do the Jefferson right with a nicer one in the future. My first house was a fixer-upper, and I don't really feel like going down that road with a recreational boat.

Thanks, all, for your answers.