complete generator failure, less than 1000 hrs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Richie89, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Richie89

    Richie89 Active Member

    587
    Aug 20, 2012
    Miami Beach, FL
    450 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins 480 Zeus
    I'm pretty ticked off. My Cummins 11.5 diesel generator is completely trashed and I have to replace. my boat is a 2015, and I bought in last year, thinking I shouldn't have to make these kinds of repairs/replace and a boat that's only 4 years old, 3 when i bought it. The boat was bought at a dealership, serviced at that dealership, traded back in, and sold to me from same dealership. boat had full service before i took ownership. I took the boat in 3 months ago (1 year after purchase) to the same dealership for an $11K service including the generator. 3 months later, total loss. something in the raw water side failed, spewing salt water all over, and corrosion cause lock up, i'm being told. I called Cummins and described to them what I'm being told, and they told me that scenario happens with improper maintenance.
     
  2. hottoddie

    hottoddie Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2012
    Boston/Cape Cod
    1986 Sea Ray 390 EC
    Garmin 4212 Chartplotter
    Garmin 24 HD Radar
    Garmin 546s Plotter
    454 Crusaders
    Your generator is an Onan. Cummins owns Onan. If I were you I'd find a good independent Cummins or Onan service tech to re-evaluate. No way I'd take the dealers word for it. BTW what is the "something" that failed? Post it on here and someone may be able to give some advice.
     
    Blueone likes this.
  3. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    I would focus on the root cause of the problem that created the total failure. if you can prove neglect or the component was out of spec or a design flaw the dealer and Cummins/onan would be more sympathetic to help you.

    Getting a certified Onan rep would be my first call to help figure out root cause...

    Side note - $11k service ..what the heck?
     
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  4. techmitch

    techmitch Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
    1999 270 DA
    Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
    Get a "Certified" Cummins/Onan technician to look at it as soon as possible.
     
  5. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Depending on what let loose, why and the kind of policy you have, you may be able to submit an insurance claim.
     
    BlueYonder likes this.
  6. techmitch

    techmitch Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
    1999 270 DA
    Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's

    Exactly.
     
  7. Korkie

    Korkie Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    554
    Feb 2, 2016
    Leonardtown, MD Potomac River / Chesapeake Bay
    340 Sundancer 2006, Garmin 7612, xHD Radome
    Merc 496 Mags
    Bravo III Drives
    +1 on the 11k service. What did they do to warrant 11 grand other than trash your genny. Check with other owners in your area for recommendations for service techs. Although not knowing exactly what they supposedly did, or the history of the boat, seems like they took you for quite a ride.
     
  8. Ididntdoit

    Ididntdoit Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Dec 5, 2007
    New England & South Florida
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Cant they just replace the powerhead and not the back end? Still a tough pill to swallow, but why replace the "half" thats still good? Call Lee at Leeward Marine - He is a Generator Jedi (954)461-7652. He can likely source a replacement/rebuilt powerhead - He is a good guy too - I trust him.
     
  9. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    If something broke and sprayed seawater all over the engine and back end then the "totaled" description may be very accurate.

    Onan uses Kubota engines and they are generally bullet-proof, however, they will not tolerate ingesting seawater sucked into the air intake. Similarly, the backend is full of electrical components and they don't play well with seawater either. Anything can be rebuilt, but at what cost and what future exposure for failure ? This is not an area where you want to have a do-over.

    The questions I would ask at this point are: What component failed allowing seawater to spray the generator? Was it something your $11,000 service should have caught? If so, it is time to stop being the golden goose for Marine Max and ask some hard questions of their service manager and/or general manager. On a replacement, Sea Ray dealers generally Keystone mark up's do a part that costs them $100, costs you $200, plus and garbage they can add to the work order like shop supplies, environmental surcharges, etc. There is room to negotiate the replacement cost and they should cut a bunch out of their margin to a new owner where they have some culpability.

    Good luck with it..........


    Frank
     
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  10. Richie89

    Richie89 Active Member

    587
    Aug 20, 2012
    Miami Beach, FL
    450 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins 480 Zeus
    Frank is exactly on target with what happened. I'm trying to find out exactly what part broke and sprayed the salt everywhere. A new genny is just under $13K without tax and install, i'm being told. Used is cheaper, but I'm gonna keep this boat for a while, so not even considering less than new. I'm expecting that what broke should have been a serviced part.
     
    JVM225 likes this.
  11. Richie89

    Richie89 Active Member

    587
    Aug 20, 2012
    Miami Beach, FL
    450 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins 480 Zeus
    Just got full report. Exhaust riser failure. The rear pan is almost completely rusted out, and there's a huge amount of salt built up back there. Sunpower (contracted out to repair) told me that this should have been seem and addressed at last service. he told me he could tell that the unit was very recently serviced, and that this issue has been there for a while. He told me it should have been seen, and doesn't understand how it wasn't seen and addressed. I'm pacing around mad right now.
     
  12. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    Wow! Good Luck in resolving it.

    MM
     
  13. BillK2632

    BillK2632 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 25, 2009
    Lake Norman, NC
    1999 185 Bowrider,
    Mercruiser 4.3, Alpha I
    Figuring what you probably just paid for your 450 plus the fact that the selling dealer is servicing it to the tune of 11k this last service - I would be off the chart hot!
     
    techmitch and The Bill Collector like this.
  14. Korkie

    Korkie Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    554
    Feb 2, 2016
    Leonardtown, MD Potomac River / Chesapeake Bay
    340 Sundancer 2006, Garmin 7612, xHD Radome
    Merc 496 Mags
    Bravo III Drives
    You will now see what kind of company the dealer is when you take this information to them.
     
    M Prod and techmitch like this.
  15. El Capitan

    El Capitan Active Member

    409
    Jul 9, 2014
    Chicago IL./Vero Beach, Fl
    1970 SRV 180 w 2.5L Mercruiser.
    2000 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer
    120HP Mercruiser
    You had me at “...the dealer for service...”. There’s your $11k right there.

    Moving forward for Cummins problem go to a certified Cummins tech, for Mercruiser problem find Mercruiser tech, canvas problem....
     
  16. Richie89

    Richie89 Active Member

    587
    Aug 20, 2012
    Miami Beach, FL
    450 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins 480 Zeus
    Things are a little different in Miami. That's why I was perfectly willing to pay a premium for service at the dealer, assuming I would get good service as a valued customer, even though i knew I was overpaying. a fact that make me pretty steamed right now.
     
  17. Richie89

    Richie89 Active Member

    587
    Aug 20, 2012
    Miami Beach, FL
    450 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins 480 Zeus
    and as things go from worse to worse, they might have to pull an engine to get the generator out.
     
  18. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Have you had the discussion with your dealer about who "owns" this problem you are fixing.

    It is inconceivable to me that a qualified mechanic who services a generator doesn't start it and watch it warm up after changing the oil and filter. If the exhaust elbow were leaking bad enough to spray seawater all over the generator, the mechanic should have gotten his shoes wet!
     
    Gunn, bbwhitejr, ttmott and 2 others like this.
  19. Richie89

    Richie89 Active Member

    587
    Aug 20, 2012
    Miami Beach, FL
    450 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins 480 Zeus
    once again, Frank, you are exactly on point. the Cummins repairman at Sunpower said that exact same thing. He said that obviously whoever did the service didn't even start it after service was done. Everyone high up the chain at the dealership is on a big trip to Bimini right now. I've left emails and voicemails for them, and I've talked to my service guy over there. I'm told they are all back in the office on Monday, and they will all meet about my issue. I'm a good customer, and I was just in there last month looking at an Azimut S6 for a possible next boat. we will see how much they value me.
     
    Todd320 likes this.
  20. El Capitan

    El Capitan Active Member

    409
    Jul 9, 2014
    Chicago IL./Vero Beach, Fl
    1970 SRV 180 w 2.5L Mercruiser.
    2000 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer
    120HP Mercruiser
    I grew up in Miami. Lived there, Hollywood/Pembroke Pines, and eventually moved just off pine island drive in Ft Lauderdale.

    That is why I didn’t do business w retail dealers.

    I hope they take full responsibility.
     

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