Chartplotting Newbie..

[Blitzn]

Thanks for reading this....
I've tried reading the forums, spoken with the dealership and local West Marine, and I think I am more confused than ever...
In our local waters - we know them real well - but that was always a 19-21' bowrider. On our new boat, we would like a navigator to boost familiarity due to changing conditions and deeper draft concerns.
Understanding that the best units are like a Simtek or Furuno for what I read... Are there any frugal (not cheap - just value) recommendations for getting started?
Price is a consideration - but not the only one. I'd like to start at 5-800 deer. Used units would be considered if that is the best way to get the best solution. We are prepared to go a bit higher in price - but thought we'd see what we could find first. If the ideal best starter is $899 for instance - we wouldn't exclude it - but I ain't Donald Trump.
Knowing in a few years we may upgrade - or add a sounded and such is also a consideration - go cheap and upgrade later - or get the capability now and add on? So many considerations and ideas......
Does the Raymarine C70 work as a chartplotter - or do I need an external antenna -(got two different answers on this already)?
Learning curve is not an issue (Engineers love to read manuals) - the Raymarine A50 display is better than the Garmin 541 (local) unit. Any suggestions for consideration?
Other opinions?
Thanks for any advice.
-Dennis

 

[300SR]

Raymarine e120 radar,dsm300 the way to go

 

[tbirdvet]

You will need an antenna with any radar system. I use the Raymarine C80, works great.

 

[Sea Gull]

In our local waters - we know them real well - but that was always a 19-21' bowrider. On our new boat, we would like a navigator to boost familiarity due to changing conditions and deeper draft concerns.
Understanding that the best units are like a Simtek or Furuno for what I read... Are there any frugal (not cheap - just value) recommendations for getting started?

My advice is to start at square one. No device you buy is going to do what you seem to want it to do.
A chart plotter is not a "navigator" you must be the navigator. All the chart plotter can do is give you an indication of your position, subject to gps accuracy, and graphically show you a historical representation of the area around you. Depending on the chart data technology, the data on the chart card are almost never up to date. Most chartplotters have you buy a chart card with data and most people do not update these more than once every few years. Certainly they are not very well equipped to "boost familiarity due to changing conditions".

Frankly in most areas there is not all that much that changes and in areas where things do change, there is almost no way to keep up with those changes in any chart form. Examples of what I am talking about: in my local area there is seasonal shoaling. The CG comes in and moves the channel buoys around a bit to keep boats in the deeper water. A month later these changes get published in the local notice to mariners (LNM). In NJ, just south of me, there are inlets where the buoys are not even marked on the charts because they are moved so often. No chart or chartplotter will help - only local knowledge, a depth sounder and a good pair of eyes will get you through.

The best "value" would be to buy full scale paper charts of your cruising area, updated to the latest LNM. Then learn to read and use a paper chart while keeping it updated monthy using the LNM. Your boat must be equipped with more basic navigation equimpment before a chartplotter. You need a depth measuring device, a compass and an accurate watch first. A hand bearing compass can help too along with a good pair of binoculars. Of course you need dividers, parallel ruler and a sharp pencil for the charts too. Become a navigator, don't try to buy one - they don't exist.

 

[Blitzn]

My advice is to start at square one. No device you buy is going to do what you seem to want it to do.
A chart plotter is not a "navigator" you must be the navigator. All the chart plotter can do is give you an indication of your position, subject to gps accuracy, and graphically show you a historical representation of the area around you. Depending on the chart data technology, the data on the chart card are almost never up to date. Most chartplotters have you buy a chart card with data and most people do not update these more than once every few years. Certainly they are not very well equipped to "boost familiarity due to changing conditions".

Frankly in most areas there is not all that much that changes and in areas where things do change, there is almost no way to keep up with those changes in any chart form. Examples of what I am talking about: in my local area there is seasonal shoaling. The CG comes in and moves the channel buoys around a bit to keep boats in the deeper water. A month later these changes get published in the local notice to mariners (LNM). In NJ, just south of me, there are inlets where the buoys are not even marked on the charts because they are moved so often. No chart or chartplotter will help - only local knowledge, a depth sounder and a good pair of eyes will get you through.

The best "value" would be to buy full scale paper charts of your cruising area, updated to the latest LNM. Then learn to read and use a paper chart while keeping it updated monthy using the LNM. Your boat must be equipped with more basic navigation equimpment before a chartplotter. You need a depth measuring device, a compass and an accurate watch first. A hand bearing compass can help too along with a good pair of binoculars. Of course you need dividers, parallel ruler and a sharp pencil for the charts too. Become a navigator, don't try to buy one - they don't exist.

You're 100% accurate - and we already have the charts - and I agree that I/we have to be the navigator. Probably didn't choose my words carefully as I should have - I understand your point.
We actually sit back each year and watch/count boats shoaling themselves on the reef in front my my grandparents. There is no substitute for prudent seamanship and careful navigation.
However, we are also looking to explore some new areas - so thought an electronic tracker (better name probably?) would be of assistance for traveling in unfamiliar locales.
This year, the lake levels ate about 10" lower than last year - and as they continue to drop, more caution is warranted I feel.
So, basically - no point in getting a GPS since I already have charts is what you're saying.
Then what's the benefit that everyone recommends these things?

 

[cod]

Raymarine C or E series are the most user friendly IMO. I plotted many different coarses with paper charts many times in the past, but with today's technology, for me thankfully its a thing of the past. Know how to do it... keep paper charts as a back up.. but get yourself a large screen chartplotter. The larger the display, the easier it is to see your plotted coarse and to follow it. Plotting a coarse with the C and E series is as simple as "point and click" After you follow a plotted coarse, you can go review your track and if you need to move a way point, drag the cursor over it and drag it. A must have for any serious boater today. Good luck.

 

[hack4alivin]

You're 100% accurate - and we already have the charts - and I agree that I/we have to be the navigator. Probably didn't choose my words carefully as I should have - I understand your point.
We actually sit back each year and watch/count boats shoaling themselves on the reef in front my my grandparents. There is no substitute for prudent seamanship and careful navigation.
However, we are also looking to explore some new areas - so thought an electronic tracker (better name probably?) would be of assistance for traveling in unfamiliar locales.
This year, the lake levels ate about 10" lower than last year - and as they continue to drop, more caution is warranted I feel.
So, basically - no point in getting a GPS since I already have charts is what you're saying.
Then what's the benefit that everyone recommends these things?

Knowing how to read and use paper charts is a valuable asset to anyone that boats, but having said that with today’s technology being able to use charts would be just a backup to your electronic navigational aids. I mean who really uses a paper map nowadays when onboard GPS is available? Technology is quickly making paper a thing of the past in all forms of media. I personally have the RayMarine C80 series and I use it as well as a Navionics chart reader and RayMarine software to chart courses on my PC and download into the C80.

Here is a link to a thread I did sometime back on the software. http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/26721-Raymarine-RayTech-PC-Software-offline-chart-plotting?highlight=chart

 

[Blitzn]

Knowing how to read and use paper charts is a valuable asset to anyone that boats, but having said that with today’s technology being able to use charts would be just a backup to your electronic navigational aids. I mean who really uses a paper map nowadays when onboard GPS is available? Technology is quickly making paper a thing of the past in all forms of media. I personally have the RayMarine C80 series and I use it as well as a Navionics chart reader and RayMarine software to chart courses on my PC and download into the C80.

Here is a link to a thread I did sometime back on the software. http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/26721-Raymarine-RayTech-PC-Software-offline-chart-plotting?highlight=chart

Thanks for that - I found it very informative. That was one of the things I had wondered about. I also have the NOAA electronic charts and a chart reader I have read (no GPS plug in - but have read those as well). It seems the chartplotter can serve kind of like a car GPS for plotting a route - which is what I wondered about and I can review water depths for proper security. No relying on the machine.
Not sure I can get a C80 or C120 in my dash - will have to go measure. With that in mind - do the C units have a built-in antenna or do I have to wire an external one of those?
Thanks again.

 

[Sea Gull]

The C-Series are multifunction displays (MFDs) which have a built in card reader for charts and can display input from a variety of sources. The sources can be a GPS, depth sounder, radar, AIS, wind instruments, etc. The GPS is a separate unit (antenna) that must be mounted with good view of the sky.

One thing to think about is that if the boat already has a depth sounder that is networkable, you will probably want an MFD from the same manufacturer. If you have a depth meter that is not networkable, then it matters not. But, be sure you have some depth measuring device - it is more important than an MFD or GPS.

 

[bajturner]

Check out the Garmin 700 Series (GPSMAP 720/720s/740/740s).

Given it is difficult to choose without getting your hands on them all, YouTube is a good resource with some detailed reviews and demos that show how they work.

Another consideration is the quality of the maps available for the particular chart plotter you are interested in..