cat 3116 vs 3126

[osd9]

Hi all..I know that the subject of Cat 3116 vs Cat 3126 has been discussed in length before....but unfortunately....that history is not here for me to re-read.

Anyway, I find myself in a (good) position where I am considering a few 410DA's, 2000-2003, and other than some minor cosmetic differences and electronic upgrades, they are identical boats execpt mainly for the engines.....Oh...and the price, but that's my own issue, or should I say the admirals....

So, if you don't mind, I would love get this discussion going once again so I can become more "edge-a-ma-cated"....Frank W....PLEASE chime in...

thanks in advance.....

 

[Alex D]

You may also want to check out www.boatdiesel.com
I think there is a wealth of info, unfortunately you need to buy a membership.

 

[fwebster]

osd9...

this one is going to take longer than I have right now.....stay tuned and I'll get back to it tonite or in the morning. But the good news is that is pretty much all good news.

 

[fwebster]

3116 vs. 3126 Caterpillars?

THe 3116TA and the 3126B-TA are basically the same engine since they are based on the same block design. The major difference is in displacement which is because the 3126 has a larger bore than the 3116.

(NOTE: I can't make this table format...hope you can figure it out!)

3116 3126

hp versions in Sea Rays 300 & 350 385 & 420
Bore 4.12" 4.33"
Stroke 5.00" 5.00"
CID/L 403 cu "/6.6L 4.39 cu"/7.2L

fuel burn at cruise/ engine 11.3 gph 13.6 gph


There are some other minor differences in injection timing and pressure.

I don't have the performance figures on the 410DA but I do on the 450DA. Sea Ray published a top speed of 27 mph on the 450 with 3116's and 29 mph with 3126's. In my view, that is about the only place you will notice any substantive difference in the engines. A 2 mph difference at WOT is more like a 1.7 mph difference at recommended cruise rpms of 2400. Further, most owners of this type of boat realize that the trip is as much or more fun than the destination, so they run at more like 2200 rpms making the actual speed difference more like 1.5 mph. Our 450DA w/3116's, runs at 23 mph at rated cruise (2400rpm) which means that a 3126 powered boat would have a 7% speed gain over our 3116's, yet the additional fuel burn at the same rpms is more like 20%.

I can't get real excited about owning 3126 over 3116's......given equal quality boats, the same equipment and comparable pricing, I'd probably choose the 3116 powered boat. That said, I suspect the resale would be easier and net a higher number with 3126's.

There are some things you need to know about Caterpillar engines before writing a check or making any committments. That area is pretty far beyond the scope of your question, so when you are ready to hear the Paul Harvey ("the rest of the story") version, let me know and I'll go through it with you.

 

[osd9]

Thanks Frank...that's great information and an excellent begininng to my education....I should be getting REAL serious in a month or two (hopefully sooner) and I will definetly repost for the LONG answer....

For now, my short story is that 2000 410DA with the 3116's is about $75K less than a 2003 with the 3126's.....some of that price difference is due to the boat being 3years newer and some is the engines....and some of the difference lies in the electronics as the 2000's generally have the older CRT Raytehon and the 2002's and 2003's have the LCD Color Raymarine equipment.....

A well equiped 2000 with the 3116's and upgraded electronics would seem to be the best bang for the buck.....

thanks again,

 

[ImpulseIII]

Dom, No matter which one you wind up, you won't be disappointed with the 410. Having said that, your 380 is a pretty sweet looking ride itself! Good luck with the hunt.

PS. I have not told anyone here about the "secret spot"......If you send me some money (you too Jon) I'll continue to keep it under my hat!! :grin:

 

[fwebster]

On the electronics, on an '03 I wouldn't put much if any value on what's in the boat....and certainly less on the 2000. Marine electronics makers are being upgrading, redesigning, adding features, etc almost before you can install what you bought today. Most of the Raymarine stuff on either boat probably needs upgrading anyway.

I used to run a 410 w/ 350hp 3116's for my next slip over neighbor on a regular basis........I'll assure you that coming out of a gas 380DA, you will have more than enough power. In fact, things are going to happen before you are ready for them to when you put the 3116's in gear.

 

[mrsrobinson]

"A well equiped 2000 with the 3116's and upgraded electronics would seem to be the best bang for the buck..."

I would not spend your $$ on electronics..not worth it as they are dated each year. Listen to Frank, go with the "older" boat and the "good enough" power.

 

[osd9]

Frank H...Thanks for the compliment ....The Admiral and I agree....we love our 380....when we moved up to the 380 from the 330, we were happy just to have a full size SEPERATE shower....and we thought that we could live with the 380 for a bunch of years....well...here it is...less than two years later, and we really want/need 2 heads....traveling with myself, wife, daughter and daughter's friend, gets real tight real quick....we should have gone with a 410 from the get-go. :smt021 ..anyway, the 410 is also a great reason to get diesel power .. :grin: ..

I also agree that electronics will not play a (big) part in my decision, however, I will use it in my negotiations. I was only trying to understand the $75K difference in price.

Assuming the boat's condition is acceptable, the deciding factors are going to be the PRICE and the engines.....

Thanks,

 

[ImpulseIII]

Dom, We usually travel with another couple and the "hard door" that separates the mid cabin/second head is a terrific configuration. We have several friends with 410 EC's and while I like the ride a bit better (inboards rather than vdrives), the second head and mid cabin are what did it for us. (to all you EC guys, I love the EC too :smt038 .....don't start flaming me!!)

Anyway, a word of advise Dom, DON't under any circumstances, go to the Chesapeake. You will try to find a way to never have go back to Barnegat!!!! We took our first excursion yesterday and it as absolutely beautiful. We have a few more weeks of exploring and we are already anxious for next season. I should have moved the boat sooner. (sorry to hijack the thread :smt018 ...back to the 3116/3126 topic)

 

[tc410]

TC410....I noticed in your signature that you have 2000 410DA with 3126TAs.....are they original for the 200 or were your original 3116's replaced.....could you post a reply under the engine category...3116 vs 3126 thread....thanks....

Dominic,

The 3126's in my boat were original for 2000. Can't say enough good things about them. You can't go wrong in getting them in your next boat. Take care of them, and they will take care of you.

BTW, please check your PM.

 

[osd9]

....I should be getting REAL serious in a month or two (hopefully sooner) and I will definetly repost for the LONG answer....

Well...nothging like quoting yourself. :smt017 ..anyway..It just might be SOONER.. :smt038 ..I just got through with a few phone calls from a local dealer and I have a "binder" on 2001 410DA.. :thumbsup: ..subject of course to all the obvious....sea trial, inspection, survey, etc, etc....

Normal Hull survey is easy, as I have done that a few times before and will contact a local surveryor.....what I really NEED to know is....how do I get the CATS checked :smt100 ?????

 

[ImpulseIII]

Dom, The Cat dealer in Hamonton is authorized for marine service. He's the only one around. Be aware that the clock starts when he leaves the office and they charge both mileage AND his hourly rate!!! The travel charges to ImpulseIII for the 250 hour "tuneup" were more than the cost of the mechanics time. I questioned Caterpillar (Ransom) and they said thats the way they do it.....Good luck...where did you find the boat?

 

[xravenx]

Anyway, a word of advise Dom, DON't under any circumstances, go to the Chesapeake. You will try to find a way to never have go back to Barnegat!!!! We took our first excursion yesterday and it as absolutely beautiful.

I'm not hi jacking the thread but I couldn't resist.....SEE FRANK, I TOLD YOU SO (about the Chesapeake).

Cruised Down to the Baltimore Inner Harbor today (beautiful conditions) there were brand new 48 and 52 Sundancers tied up behind us.....guess they were part of the Annapolis boat show.............sorry again for the hi jack.

John

 

[osd9]

Frank H.....I will contact the Hammonton dealer ....thanks....Isn't there also a dealer in Point Pleasant?.....anyway....deal right now is through MM...I had a few others in the works, especially one up in MA, but the logistics were just a little daunting and numbers didn't work so well....ANYWAY....and please, I mean no offense.....I have to remember that so far my deal is based ENTIRELY on what the salesman is telling me....and he could be telling me anything......I put a $5K binder on my credit card and MM faxed and signed binder....if this works out, they will be taking my 380 on trade......I am told that the 410DA I have the binder on is a "captain" run/maintained boat with an open check book...the owner didn't drive it....and was traded in on a new 60' Dancer..... If this deal works through, I just may make that trip to the Chessapeake next season.......

later,

 

[fwebster]

The "How do I get Caterpillars checked?" question was buried so I almost missed it.

First, you don't need to get a gereral diesel service company to do it. Only use an authorized Caterpillar servicing dealer. There are many non-franchised servicing dealers, but you want 2 things.......access to the Caterpillar service system so the technician can look up your serial numbers to see what repairs and upgrades you motors have had and if they are subject to any of the 2-3 known Cat problems. Those problems are serious ones but straight forward and as a buyer, you need to know they are out there. Post a question if you are interestied in going thru that.

The other reson to use an authorized Cat dealer is because Caterpillar has a proprietary method of hooking a gauge to the crankcase vent system and measuring the amount of combustion blow-by there is when the motor is running. This test saves the need for more intrusive and expensive compression and bore scope testing. By just hooking up a gauge the Cat guy can tell the extent of any engine wear and I'd never buy a Caterpillar engine without the blow by test and having the tech run oil samples thru the Cat lab.

 

[osd9]

I called the Nationwide Caterpillar 800 number and they hooked me up with a NJ Certified Caterpillar Service Center: Foley Power Systems in Piscataway, NJ. The contact on the phone said that the FULL engine survey, including travel to and from the vessel, sea trial, oil analysis, history look-up, etc, etc would cost between $1200-1500 and take a complete day. He also said that I may be able to purchase a Caterpillar warranty and that someone from the warranty department would get back to me...QUESTION...anyone purchase the extended Cat warranty and do you think it would be worth while...the engines have approx 400hours.

Frank H....No mention of a service center in Hammonton...

As (and IF) this deal continues (keep in mind, I haven't even seen the boat yet ...heck, I don't even know what color the canvas is...) I will be onsite for the survey.....I would SURELY ... :smt100 ....appreciate any input as to what I should be looking to learn from the survey and what I should ask the Cat Technician during the survey....FRANK W....if you could let me know about those 2-3 BIG issues, I will certainly ask the tech....


Well...the ball is certainly rolling.... :smt043 ...from my side anyway.....the admiral still can't believe I'm doing this....

 

[JC3]

Dominic : Iam watching your purchase very carefully as we are starting to look very closely for our new boat :smt038 . Good luck and keep us informed. :grin: JC

 

[tc410]

Dominic-

When I purchased my 410, I called Michigan CAT and they ran the serial numbers and faxed me printed copies of the results - for free. The oil sample kits are about $15.00 each engine, including a postage paid bottle, so figure the rest of that $1,200-1,500 is getting that pretty white truck to the marina and tech time - around $90/hr here in Michigan. All day, I presume is 8 hrs - or about $800 + $400 truck charge.

I'd try getting MM to pay it, or at least half. They want to move the boat now that the season is wrapping up.

As for the CAT extended warranty, mine had the Passport Priemere compliments of the previous owner, which covered the engines, so I can't attest to the CAT system.

 

[fwebster]

Dominic,

I'll get to the Caterpillar problema areas later today.

On the warranty question, I'm usually not one to take extended warranties on anything. On a 400 hour engine, there is not a lot of risk. I would expect the plan to exclude wear items like impellors, and service items like cleaning heat exchangers and transmission oil coolers, so what is there to fail?......perhaps an alternator, maybe an injector seat. I just has all the injectors reseated on one engine and the cost was about $850. Once past 100 hours or so, there just isn't much to go wrong with these engines.

This is a decision about your comfort level and one for you to make a decision on when you have all the facts in frot of you. Specifically, the cost of the plan and the warranty exclusions. Understand that Cat sells these plans thru their finance department and it is a profit center for them.