Cat 3116 Antifreeze smell/smoke

[EKM]

Hi Guys,
Just brought my boat over to have it pulled for the winter (20minute trip). Port engine is producing white smoke with the smell of antifreeze. You could smell it at idle speeds. The engines have 375 hours on them and we just finished a 30 hour trip to Nantucket a few weeks back.

The port engine was runing at 180f, the heat exchanger seemed a little hotter to the touch than the stb unit. Engine sounds fine, idles wells, doesn't stall out.

Where do I look first?
Thanks for the help....Ed

 

[BonBini]

You may very well have a jacket water cooled aftercooler with a leak. There are three plugs along the top of the intake manifold where attachments and test equipment plum in. You may be able to pull them out for a visual inspection!

 

[Odyssey]

Hi Guys,
Just brought my boat over to have it pulled for the winter (20minute trip). Port engine is producing white smoke with the smell of antifreeze. You could smell it at idle speeds. The engines have 375 hours on them and we just finished a 30 hour trip to Nantucket a few weeks back.

The port engine was runing at 180f, the heat exchanger seemed a little hotter to the touch than the stb unit. Engine sounds fine, idles wells, doesn't stall out.

Where do I look first?
Thanks for the help....Ed

Hi Ed - a couple of questions....

• The 3116 is an older engine. Are you sure about the hours?

• I believe 180 degrees is not over heating for this engine

Randy

 

[EKM]

Yes...original hours. Boat was not used very much.

Both engines run at 180f.
Thanks for the help
Ed

 

[EKM]

Pull the turbo (antrifreeze on jacket) and riser (raw water cooled)....the turbo had rust spots. This looked like the source of my leak but I put 15 psi on the jacket and could not find any leaks but ony had a few minutes to check it out. I also pulled an oil sample which is at the lab.

Intercooler is also cooled with antifreeze so this could also be a leak source...or of course the dreaded head gasket. Anybody have knowledge on intercooler leaks?
The turbo was easy to pull out...Hope I don't have to find out how hard the head gasket is to replace.

Ed

 

[BonBini]

Ed: Do you believe you are burning antifreeze from the white smoke and smell? The port engine heat exchanger seemed a little hotter to the touch, was it low on coolant?

With a head gasket leak (fire ring to coolant passage); your going to see combustion pressure push into the coolant system and purge coolant out the rad cap. Also the heat introduced into the coolant system will over tax the heat exchanger. Typical this failure does not cause white smoke until the fire ring is blown so bad the engine has a miss. Also when the engine is off, coolant pressure will seep into the cylinder. Lets hope you don’t have any of this of even a cracked head.

Intercooler: this component is called an aftercooler. If leaking internally will cause white smoke. Even seep into intake when the engine is off.
It sounds like your not afraid to get your hands dirty. You can perform a “bubble” test to check for combustion gasses within the coolant system. Also you may be able to test the aftercooler in place or visually look into the intake for an antifreeze trail.

What do you think your next step is and is the engine still runable? Ie: with the sea water pump belt off, I test run these things on the floor. In the boat you may have to lock the prop shaft.

 

[Odyssey]

Pull the turbo (antrifreeze on jacket) and riser (raw water cooled)....the turbo had rust spots. This looked like the source of my leak but I put 15 psi on the jacket and could not find any leaks but ony had a few minutes to check it out. I also pulled an oil sample which is at the lab.

Intercooler is also cooled with antifreeze so this could also be a leak source...or of course the dreaded head gasket. Anybody have knowledge on intercooler leaks?
The turbo was easy to pull out...Hope I don't have to find out how hard the head gasket is to replace.

Ed

If there is rust on the turbo, it is most likely coming from the exhaust riser. That's what happened to mine. I had the turbo re-built and replaced the riser with a "dry riser".

Randy

 

[EKM]

Results back from the lab with Antifreeze in the oil. So head gasket would have pressurized the coolant tank and blew out the antifreeze...I did not see any evidence of this in the bildge.
If the aftercooler is leaking, would the cylinders fill up with antifreeze? The expansion tank was almost empty when checked. The turbo is out of the boat.

The aftercooler seems pretty simple to remove so maybe this should be my next step.

Thoughts?
Thanks,
Ed

 

[BonBini]

If the aftercooler is leaking, would the cylinders fill up with antifreeze? The expansion tank was almost empty when checked.

Yes.

The aftercooler seems pretty simple to remove so maybe this should be my next step.

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[EKM]

Oil report came back positive for antifreeze. Spoke to my local Cat place and he thought cracked exhaust manifold which he said is very common for this vintage engine. Also stated that turbos should be updated to new style since turbo shaft is too thin. After I shared the oil results with him, he moved to head gasket leak.

He is coming down to inspect the engine and use a scope to inspect.
Just something to do in the winters up north....

 

[EKM]

Skiing and Snowmobiling season is almost over, so time to get back in the boating mode again.

Scoped the one engine thru injectors...engine OK
Removed intercooler and exh manifold and pressure tested....ok

Re-installed intercooler and exh manifold and pressure tested engine unit....ok

Planning to replace the exhaust with Bronze units (from the SS units supplied early on 3116 engines). Turbo hot side castings are corroded and need to be replaced but the mech says the turbo core is fine.

Any cronic problems with the angle of water discharge out of the exhaust manifold backing up in the turbo? Is a dry riser a better replacement option?
Thanks....

 

[Odyssey]

Ed - I tried to reply to your PM but the CSR said this - "EKM has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space".

sorry, clear your PM's and I'll try again.

Randy

 

[EKM]

All cleared....sorry

 

[EKM]

So a little update is in order. The hot gas side of the turbo was cracked and that was the source of antifreeze burning (still can not get the hot gas side off the turbo core). The turbo cartridge is fine. Replacing both risers and both hot gas side housings. This still does not explain the oil sample test result being positive for glycol. We replaced the gaskets in the oil cooler so we will have to see.

 

[EKM]

The turbo that keeps giving....
So the core was sent to Southeast Power Systems in Orlando FL for rebuild...they found some corrosion on the core. The sent it to a shop in Missouri for rewelding the corrision areas....they lost the core. Found a replacement core and rebuilt it...returned to Orlando and then shipped North to NJ. Hot gas wheel was too large to fit in the hot gas housing. Sent core back to Orlando (with new hot gas housing), they sent it to MO...new (used) wheel located...shipped back to Orlando then to NJ.
Finally back in the boat over the July 4th holiday....preoiled turbo on bench and twice upon install.

So gages on engines, oil pressure at start up 60 psi, temps fine...idle for ~30 minutes, run up to 2000rpm for ~5 minutes, boost at 10psi ...looking good. Spool up to 2400rpm and within 5 seconds, the turbo boost falls to zero.

Idle back to slip, turbo removed, bearings shot, hot gas wheel chipped....back to Orlando it goes.

Should be arriving in Orlando tomorrow. UPS is sending me gift baskets for customer appreciation.

 

[douglee25]

What a story!

Doug

 

[BonBini]

was a Cat Remanufactured turbo an option?

 

[osd9]

Ed. Sorry to hear about all the hassle you're going through. Just curious. In hind sight. Would the difference between buying a factory new or rebuilt turbo have been worth the savings over rebuilding it yourself?

 

[EKM]

Well it gets better with Cat...the turbos have been upgraded, so they recommend you replace both of them as the wheel size is slightly different...that option is for new and they give you a credit for the old turbos. If I remember correctly, they would be 2500 each after core return.
I did attempt to get a rebuilt turbo from Cat and Cat (Ransome) would not accept the core due to the corrision on the core and hot case housing corrision. So once I bought the hot gas housing, it was (I thought) less expensive to rebuild. Time will tell. I assume the rebuilder will cover the failure of the rebuilt turbo. From what I hear, you can not get new turbo parts for this vintage turbo anymore unless you upgrade...so protect your turbos.

 

[Four Suns]

You said these were CATs?

hmmmm.... who'd a thunk...