Buying a Boat Long Distance

[Max Power]

I am really happy I found this forum. We are buying a 1997 Sea Ray and have found a good deal for one in Florida. We live in Chicago. We don't want to take delivery until May 15 and would just as soon leave the boat in Florida and pay storage there until then. However, we are nervous about paying the purchase price and waiting 2 months to take delivery. We have no broker assisting us, but the seller has a broker. Would it be out of line to ask to keep a portion of the purchase price in escrow until after we take delivery? Should we just bite the bullet and get down to Florida and personally inspect it? We've been going off pictures and surveys for now. Thanks for any help!

 

[Carver370]

You really need to inspect the boat, a broker will not let you have the boat delivered and then release the money. If you are concerned about the boats condition to your liking I would hop on a Southwest flight down to Florida for $49-$79 and check it out for yourself.

What I would do in this situation is go take a look at it before closing and / or wait to go look at it a week or so before its shipped with the remainder of the money in hand for a closing. My main concern would be leaving the boat unattended for that amount of time after a closing, there is a strong chance that some accessories or parts may grow legs and walk away while the boat is waiting to be shipped. I am not implying the broker having something shady going on, but the public.

 

[fwebster]

I see this is your first post, so here are some obvious points:

Brokers work for the seller, not the buyer, since the seller has his boat listed, you do have a broker involved in this transaction.

Never, ever buy a boat sight unseen. If you are going to invest money in the boat then factor in the cost of doing proper due diligence. Due diligence, at a minimum should include:

1. Your visual inspection.... compare the broker's listing documents and ads with the vessel to be sure everything is there, nothing is missing and the boat is, indeed, as it is represented as far as condition, hours, options, etc.

2. a hull survey done by a qualified marine surveyor that you pay for. If a survey exists it is most likely one from when the seller purchased the boat and is out of date if it is older than 30 days old. Figure about $20/linear foot and this will most likely be required to insure a 1997 model boat anyway.

3. a mechanical survey done by a qualified marine technicial accredited by the maker of the engines in the boat. Don't forget to have the generator, if equipped surveyed as well. Have the surveyor pull fluid samples on engine oils, transmission oils, and cooolants. Takes about a day....figure 8 hours @$100/hr.

In terms of the sequence of events, You have already found the boat, to next comes your inspection. If everything is as advertised and you want tpo purchase the boat, then enter into a buy sell agreement with the seller thru the broker. Sometimes this is as simple as a preprinted one page buyer's order or some other entitled document and sometimes it is more complex, but the key elements are these: you agree to buy and the seller agrees to sell you the boat at a specified price, subject to your contingencies, which are the surveys mentioned above. Always give the broker a deposit and get a receipt for the deposit. Without the deposit, the contract isn't enforcable since it is your consideration in the deal.

A word of caution here.........I am deadly serious about a personal visual inspection of boat you want to buy. Florida marine condition are very harsh. Boats here can easily show excessive oxidation and corrosion. Even though the photos may look great, they won't reveil that the canvas is sun baked and rotten or the vinyl is cooked and is as hard as a rock. Leaving the boat in Florida is a separate challenge......you must pick the marina carefully and cheap isn't good since you will need someone putting eyes on the boat frequently. We have 24 hour security 365 days a year at our marina and there has not been a theft in 20 years, so it is possible.

Hope that helps............

 

[ktcanuck]

Having just gone through the exact same process myself I agree entirely with the above. In fact I got some very good advice from Frank myself before buying. I might add a word about having a broker for yourself though.

I bought my 1996 420AC in October last year and it has been in storage since then. I had been looking for a boat for a while and had visited Florida to view a few and located an apparently decent broker whom I trusted to preview any boat I found thereafter. As Frank says, he still is paid part of the borkerage commission with the selling broker but I found it helped me and saved a couple of air fares. I found a few candidates through Yachtworld after my first visit and my broker checked them out until one met the criteria I had given him. I then hopped on an airplane (with my wife - she HAS to agree in the end) and performed a detailed inspection to satisfy myself it was worth spending good money on a professional survey. Now, I had committed to a surveyor who had mechanical experience at about the same time as Frank recommended I get a Caterpillar survey as well. Frank was right but, after the event I have had the engines and generator completed inspected and serviced and, touch wood, all appears to be ok.

I relaunch in 3 weeks to bring the boat home to Canada. I expect issues to arise but I believe due diligence was done. I know that a number of overseas buyers are picking up Florida boats at the moment and having them shipped unseen to Australia for example. For them boat prices are so much higher and costs to view so much higher that it is worth the risk. For you, the air fare and hotels are so cheap you cannot afford not to inspect. The pictures do not tell the story, believe me - I have viewed some 15 boats that all looked just fine in the pictures and few really were.

My 2c and good luck.

 

[HUMPH]

+ 100% :thumbsup:

I see this is your first post, so here are some obvious points:

Brokers work for the seller, not the buyer, since the seller has his boat listed, you do have a broker involved in this transaction.

Never, ever buy a boat sight unseen. If you are going to invest money in the boat then factor in the cost of doing proper due diligence. Due diligence, at a minimum should include:

1. Your visual inspection.... compare the broker's listing documents and ads with the vessel to be sure everything is there, nothing is missing and the boat is, indeed, as it is represented as far as condition, hours, options, etc.

2. a hull survey done by a qualified marine surveyor that you pay for. If a survey exists it is most likely one from when the seller purchased the boat and is out of date if it is older than 30 days old. Figure about $20/linear foot and this will most likely be required to insure a 1997 model boat anyway.

3. a mechanical survey done by a qualified marine technicial accredited by the maker of the engines in the boat. Don't forget to have the generator, if equipped surveyed as well. Have the surveyor pull fluid samples on engine oils, transmission oils, and cooolants. Takes about a day....figure 8 hours @$100/hr.

In terms of the sequence of events, You have already found the boat, to next comes your inspection. If everything is as advertised and you want tpo purchase the boat, then enter into a buy sell agreement with the seller thru the broker. Sometimes this is as simple as a preprinted one page buyer's order or some other entitled document and sometimes it is more complex, but the key elements are these: you agree to buy and the seller agrees to sell you the boat at a specified price, subject to your contingencies, which are the surveys mentioned above. Always give the broker a deposit and get a receipt for the deposit. Without the deposit, the contract isn't enforcable since it is your consideration in the deal.

A word of caution here.........I am deadly serious about a personal visual inspection of boat you want to buy. Florida marine condition are very harsh. Boats here can easily show excessive oxidation and corrosion. Even though the photos may look great, they won't reveil that the canvas is sun baked and rotten or the vinyl is cooked and is as hard as a rock. Leaving the boat in Florida is a separate challenge......you must pick the marina carefully and cheap isn't good since you will need someone putting eyes on the boat frequently. We have 24 hour security 365 days a year at our marina and there has not been a theft in 20 years, so it is possible.

Hope that helps............

 

[Max Power]

Wow. I can't believe I got three thoughtful responses in such a short time. I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me the benefit of your experience. I'm buying the boat with my father and we have personally checked on the boats within 4 hours of home and I guess knew in the back of our minds we'd need to check this one out, too. The one in Florida that we'd like to buy had a survey done in January, 2011 for insurance purposes but the engines were not surveyed. The broker says the boat is an 8/10 inside and a 7/10 outside. He says it needs to be professionally detailed outside (the owner detailed it himself and didn't do a great job) but that it isn't chalking. It needs bottom paint, but everything else is in good condition. The survey from January was not very helpful to read; it told very little about the condition of the boat except that it identified a couple issues that the owner is addressing (putting in new isinglass, replacing risers). The surveyor powered things on (windlass, generator, etc.) but would not indicate whether they were working. The overall condition of the boat was reported as Average. Do you think we need to get another survey done as well (I mean in addition to the engine survey)? We are having an engine survey done regardless, but maybe we should wait to do that until we inspect it. I appreciate your help!

 

[techmitch]

I see you state that it's a 1997 Sea Ray, but what size,model,engine(s) and propulsion does it have

 

[88dancer300]

You really should find your own non bias surveyor, one not affilliated or recommended by the seller. I am not suggesting that you dont know what you are doing, but there are too many other things that are very expensive to repair and or safety issues that really need to looked at by a specialist. Your eye will tell you if it is clean and well kept. But the surveyor will find: engine and generator issues, structural issues, IE transom, stringer rot or elevated moisture. Delamination, Electrical issues, plumbing and controls. Not to mention, If you do buy it, and leave it in Florida till spring....The marina will require you to provide them with a certificate of insurance, and with the year of the boat, the ins. co will most likely require a survey to write the policy anyway. I know if it were my vessel, and that far away from home, I would want to know my investment was protected. Just my two cents. I just purchased mine 800 miles away, last Feb.

 

[Carver370]

If you are looking at an insurance survey they are very basic. You need to hire a surveyor to perform a pre-purchase survey, and adding to that I suggest you are there for it as well. What 1997 Sea Ray is this? Is there not any locally that are logistically easier to purchase without the headache or trucking and the distance?

 

[Southpaw II]

I bought a boat in FL three years ago. Boats are generally cheaper in FL for 2 reasons; abundant supply, and the hot saltwater environment. Depending on what you're buying, and the financial risk involved, I would plan on making 3 trips to do the deal...(1) the visual inspection to choose the boat. 15% of the boats in the world are in Florida. When you go, look at several. Get a rental car and see several. (2) be on site for the survey and sea trial after you have inked the deal. As mentioned before, hire your own surveyor. I asked the Broker for the names of 3 Surveyors. I called each and then chose one. (3) Be on site for the rig-down and ship process. It should be supervised, and done to your liking. Since this is done after the cash has been exchanged, it is often done with less care than you would do otherwise.

Good luck,

Don

 

[Max Power]

Well, you guys are really great. We are going to sign a contract contingent on inspection, survey and sea trial. the deal can be rejected and earnest money returned at our option within 14 days. Within that 14 days we need to arrange for the pre-purchase survey and sea trial to occur the weekend we come to inspect it. I guess we could inspect it first, but that would involve a second trip. We are taking it on faith the boat is good enough to pay for an inspection. The broker says after we close he will store the boat on his lot at no charge until we arrange for shipping in mid-May. He says it is a 14 acre section of the marina and they have excellent security.

Am I missing anything?

The boat is a 330 Sundancer and it is priced to sell. We looked at similar boats in Illinois, Michigan, Indiana and Wisconsin. Some boats we inquired about in Florida had been sun baked, or were otherwise in rough shape. This one appears to be in good shape. Small engines (5.7's) with 480 hours and a 4.5KW gen. We're relying a little on the broker's opinion about the condition of the boat, but every broker I've dealt with so far has been pretty frank when the boat has a problem and I don't think this broker would lie about the condition when we are going to be getting a survey and inspecting it ourselves regardless. We would prefer to get a freshwater boat of course, but if this one checks out, we would have a nice buy. Nothing ridiculous, but after transportation costs it would still be a good price.

 

[fwebster]

An insurance survey is just done to verify the market value of the boat. No underwriter will knowingly write a policy for more than the boats worth and this is his way of verifying that. You need to commission your own C&V survey (condition and value).

Something you may be missing is insurability. YOu are keeping the type of boat a secret for some reason, but you may find it difficult to buy insurance for a boat you own that is located 1500 miles away while it is stored in an unsupervised facility.

Florida is a big place, but I have found that quality tradesmen and mechanics are well known. Where is the boat? ....some of us may have experience with surveyors or mechanics in that location.

 

[Southpaw II]

For more info... go to the Sea Ray website and look at Archives under the Customer Service tab. Click on the year and model of your potential boat to learn more before you actually see it.

Don

 

[Max Power]

An insurance survey is just done to verify the market value of the boat. No underwriter will knowingly write a policy for more than the boats worth and this is his way of verifying that. You need to commission your own C&V survey (condition and value).

Something you may be missing is insurability. YOu are keeping the type of boat a secret for some reason, but you may find it difficult to buy insurance for a boat you own that is located 1500 miles away while it is stored in an unsupervised facility.

Florida is a big place, but I have found that quality tradesmen and mechanics are well known. Where is the boat? ....some of us may have experience with surveyors or mechanics in that location.

I think maybe you posted before you had a chance to read my last one? It's a 330 Sundancer with 5.7 liter engines. The boat is in Venice which is near Sarasota. If you or anyone else could recommend a surveyor to do the C&V survey I would definitely appreciate it.

 

[Max Power]

For more info... go to the Sea Ray website and look at Archives under the Customer Service tab. Click on the year and model of your potential boat to learn more before you actually see it.

Don

the funny thing is that I actually stumbled on this forum when I was googling for the spec sheet and owner's manual and found a link to the Sea Ray website you mentioned in a post on this forum from 2007! the post has links to the owner's manuals for the boat, the clarion stereo and the head!

 

[MonacoMike]

1. Your visual inspection.... compare the broker's listing documents and ads with the vessel to be sure everything is there, nothing is missing and the boat is, indeed, as it is represented as far as condition, hours, options, etc.

Great explanation, Frank. I also like to download the Sea Ray brochure for the model I’m looking at to verify the standard features are present and what options are actually on board. It is amazing what gets left off that is a standard feature. :smt021

 

[ktcanuck]

I think maybe you posted before you had a chance to read my last one? It's a 330 Sundancer with 5.7 liter engines. The boat is in Venice which is near Sarasota. If you or anyone else could recommend a surveyor to do the C&V survey I would definitely appreciate it.

You are close to where I bought and stored my boat. I used Steve Berlin to survey and stored my boat at All American. The former is well known, I was present at the survey and can highly recommend him. The latter is a monitored yard and is very cost effective for safe dry storage.

 

[Max Power]

Thank you very much! I'm going to take your advice.

 

[D-Sill-D]

:thumbsup: PRICELESS ADVICE...ALL..:thumbsup:

 

[northern]

I looked at a few boats in Florida and Mississipi. I did not purchase any of them. One I had surveyed and it had a lot of hidden defects a survey picked up. The others I could see were not in good condition.
You need to look at the boat before you purchase. The one we have now the seller had moorage booked for two months past the closing date and we left the boat there for that time.