Buying a 420 aft cabin in the next 60 days - bunch of questions

Discussion in 'Newbie Lounge - NEW' started by k9medic, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    A slight back story - I am now within 60 days of making a boat purchase which is part of a 2 1/2 year process.

    I initially narrowed my search down to the 400 Sedan Bridge and found one with three cabins (which I really would like to have). Just before I took my wife to a sea trial with me, we stopped and looked at a 420 Aft cabin. Needless to say, we are now in the market for the aft cabin.

    I have a few questions for anyone who may know:
    1. Changing out the carpet. Is this difficult to replace? We have found several boats that are cheaper but the carpet looks horrible.
    2. Any gotcha's to look for? I'm aware of the problems with the 3116 Cats.
    3. Cruise speed, hull speed and fuel burns would be nice. I'm figuring around 20-25 gph at 20 kts?

    Thanks all and Happy New Year.
     
  2. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Sea Ray carpets are glued in.....and glued in very well. Removing the old carpeting is usually a huge job, sometimes involving removing steps, kick boards, furniture, etc. The carpet usually comes out in pieces no bigger than your thumb nail. THe other aspect of re-carpeting to pay attention to is that most home carpet layers leave all the edges raw. On a boat, you have to seal every seam around hatches, trim, furniture etc. Home carpet layers frequently under-bid boat jobs because they don't have the experience to know the trouble areas, and that leaves you with an installer who is going to hurry to finish the job. If you find a guy experienced on boats, then you can really freshen up an old drab boat in a hurry by just changing the carpet. Don't skrimp on the carpeting....buy the best tightest weave you can find and expect to pay 2-3 times per yard what a residential carpet installer will charge. Finally, I don't think this is a do-it-yourself job. It isn't brain surgery, but it is a huge amount of work in a very tight space and a little damage to upholstery/cabinetry will quickly outweigh any savings you might have by doing it yourself.

    You don't mention the year 420 you are looking at, but generally, there aren't any particular issues with the 3116 that will not have already been addressed by previous owners. Time is your friend here.......look for a boat with normal running time of 50-125 hours per year and look for a boat with a service record. Very low time boats require extensive due diligence because owners figure that they can skip some of the maintenance because they don't run the boat. With regular routine maintenance, the 3116 last a long time, but deferred (or neglected) maintenance always catches up in mechanical issues, overheating, leaking pumps/seals, etc. Finally, on nay diesel boat you consider, have a separate mechanical survey done by a trained mechanic familiar with your engines. Don't use somebody the guy 3 boats down recommends....use a Caterpillar Dealer who has the specs and necessary proprietary tools. YOu don't say where you are; Florida is a big place, but most Cat dealers in Florida are very well experienced with marine engines. A comprehensive survey will require 6-8 hours and will cost ≈$1200 including travel time and expenses. You will need to specify that you want fluid analyses done on the engine oil, the engine coolant, the transmissions, the generator engine oil and the generator coolant....which Caterpillar does in-house with their own program called S.O.S. for about $15/sample.

    350 hp 3116's burn 22.6 GPH @ recommended cruise speed of 2400 rpm, if the engines are loaded right and turn up 2800 rpm at WOT. A 420AC isn't going to be a fast boat and I suspect 20 kts is going to be more like 18 kts with normal loads on the boat and normal slime build-up on the bottom.

    Finally, you mention nothing about your planned use for the boat, only that your wife likes the AC. I am not trying to talk you guys out of anything, but the AC's are not very popular in coastal areas unless t he owner is only looking for a floating condo or plans to cruise the boat extensively. Most of us enjoy anchoring at beaches/sand bars and swimming from the boat. With the AC that means you have to climb up and down stairs to access the swim platform. It is difficult to watch kids/grandkids, and the inexperienced because they are out of sight when in the water. Just getting a coke means climbing up to the deck. Most Florida buyers prefer one level access to the water. If this is the boat of your dreams, then go for it, but do so with open eyes.......it may be difficult to sell or trade in Florida because of a limited demand for this style of boat in coastal areas.

    Enjoy shopping!
     
  3. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    Thanks for the great insight Frank. I'm in northern central Florida and will be keeping the boat in Crystal River.

    Our plans for the boat are to use it as a floating condo of sorts, traveling in the gulf to the Anna Maria island area once a month or so. We also plan on doing a longer cruise to the Bahamas each year. I thought about the up and down issue with the aft cabin. The one thing that I do like about the lower swim deck is the fact that our boys can be on the swim deck and the adults can be up a little higher away from the craziness.

    We have two boys (7 and 9) who have grown up on the boat and also have a 23' twin engine yamaha jet boat that we use about 200 hours per year. We did Crystal River to Key West in it a year ago and the Bahamas the previous year.

    I hate to hear that the carpet is such a pain. Is it worth a 15K difference in price to have it done?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    I have no idea about the yardage needed on a 420AC, but it cost $3500 to get the best carpet/flooring guy in NW Florida to re-carpet mine using a $65/yard Mohawk carpet. I got to know the installer very week the week he was on my boat, he has since laid hardwoods in my beach house. His comment was: "I love working for you guys,.......but take care of that carpet on the boat, 'cause that is the last one I'm gonna do".

    My recommendation for anyone shopping is to find the cleanest, nicest boat you can with the best mechanicals, then deal with the stuff you don't like. It is a lot easier and cheaper to change an interior carpet, replace the canvas, change the TV's etc. than it is to have to deal with severe mechanical problems or a boat with significant fiberglass damage.
     
  5. Tonysca6

    Tonysca6 New Member

    225
    Mar 12, 2011
    White Oak, PA/Lake Murray, SC
    Interim - Toon
    50 HP Mercury Outboard
    We bought ours in 2010 & is the first boat for us, perfect for our use on the Chesapeake. Frank was dead on regarding the 3116 Cats, can't add more. We usually cruise in the 1800-2200 range in order to view the sites. In regards to the carpets, we have snap ins excepts for the steps in the cabins. He is also right about all the steps, most are grouped in 3-4 except for the cockpit to swim platform. As Frank said, you have to keep track of everyone on board, the admiral gets a little worn out when out for extended periods. The boat has plenty of room for a 45' boat & has generous storage through out. Being a bridge style boat it also gives you great views while underway & docking ( no thrusters though, would recommend). It is the only boat of it size that can boast a 3' draft which allows us to drop the hook in some quiet places on weekends. There is a 420 AC thread in the yatch section that can informative, if you want any additional information PM me.
     
  6. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    Does anyone know how difficult it would be to remove the washer setup and concert it to a bedroom?
     
  7. Gimme Time

    Gimme Time Member GOLD Sponsor

    730
    Jan 7, 2007
    Charlottesville, VA./ Deltaville, VA
    2006 52SB, Ray Marine E120, Garmin 7612 through BOE site sponsor,
    QSM11s
    W/D is a pain in the _ss as I pulled ours out this spring before I put the Nuteak Teak & Holly floor down in the salon as it had issues and the cost of repair or replacement was not worth losing the space for. On the 2001 model year it gets lifted straight up through the salon floor once you remove the couch to get to the floor access door and ya better have some great help as it is a beast.
     
  8. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    This is on a 1998. I wonder if that will make a difference in the removal.

    I'm heading out in the morning to look at one that has the washer in it. The difference in listing price between the washer and 3rd room version is almost $10,000 which is why I'm interested in the removal.
     
  9. ktcanuck

    ktcanuck New Member

    275
    Sep 13, 2010
    1000 Islands Ontario
    '96 420 Aft Cabin
    2012 310 Merc RIB/2011 9.9Merc2S
    420 3126 Cats.
    Mine is a 96. So far as I can tell I have to remove the wooden frame from the door to get it out of the room. That means removing the oak plugs to get at the screws of course. Then I have to get the salon door end stop off the open that door wide enough to get it of the boat. Yes, my Splendide doesn't work.
     
  10. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    Well I drove just shy of 1000 miles in the past two days and looked at a 1998 2 stateroom that was in really good condition - 1850 hours on the 3116 engines. Next stop is Virginia and Maryland on Tuesday/Wednesday to look at three more.

    Thank you for all the input so far! I plan on putting a deposit down on one of the 4 boats by Thursday.
     
  11. Quint4

    Quint4 Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 6, 2006
    S.W. Ohio
    330 Sport Bridge
    5.7 MPI 350 Merc Bluewaters
    Take lots and lots of pics to review later. Good luck.
     
  12. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    Well after a world wind tour of Louisana, Norfolk, Solomons, and Annaoplis in the past 5 days, i finally have submitted and had accepted an offer. I just finished typing up the finance paperwork and with fingers crossed, will close by februart 21st!

    Next step is the sea trial and inspection.
     
  13. Tonysca6

    Tonysca6 New Member

    225
    Mar 12, 2011
    White Oak, PA/Lake Murray, SC
    Interim - Toon
    50 HP Mercury Outboard
    Congratulations K9, hope to see pictures soon
     
  14. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Congrats. That is a really nice boat. I love how they look and think they have a great layout.
     
  15. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    Well the survey and sea trial is this coming Monday. I will be joining the engine guy and the hull guy during their inspections.

    Anything that I should look at in particular?
     
  16. techmitch

    techmitch Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
    1999 270 DA
    Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's

    Which one did you decide on?
     
  17. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs

    The two stateroom version in Louisiana. There was a really nice 3 stateroom one in Norfolk which I can always use as a fall back should the one in Louisiana not survey clean.

    Financing is in place, insurance quotes are good to go and now it's just a waiting game. I'm like an expectant father!
     
  18. techmitch

    techmitch Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2008
    Chesapeake Bay, Middle River/Frog Mortar Creek MD.
    1999 270 DA
    Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
    Got any links?
     
  19. k9medic

    k9medic Active Member

    535
    Mar 27, 2013
    Florida
    2005 23' twin engine jet boat
    1998 420 Aft Cabin
    twin jet 160hp.
    twin 3116 CATs
    No links handy but I spent the day yesterday with the surveyors. A few issues were found - this boat has a 4 bladed prop so it only spins 2700 rpm and it has a small vibration that the mechanics thing is from heavy cupping on the prop. At WOT it was getting 19.5kts.

    There were also several cracks around the exhaust outlets on the side and some osmotic blistering on the bottom of the hull. I'm guessing this is pretty common?


    My thoughts are to have the seller fix the props and I will get the cracks and blistering fixed in the next year during the hull painting?


    thoughts?
     
  20. Capt. Rusty Higgins

    Capt. Rusty Higgins Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    717
    Nov 6, 2006
    Florida
    The yacht delivery captain for Sea Ray Boats Inc.
    mostly 1100hp CAT/MAN
    can I call you? PM me a number if you wish.

    Rusty
     

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