Buyer's Broker?

[Windjammer]

Is there such an animal (in real estate occasionally you come across a "buyer's agent") with boats? I am looking for someone to represent ME (not the seller, not the dealer) with some of the negotiations, surveys/sea trials, and possibly delivery (interstate). I don't get a "warm fuzzy" with the salesmen at some of the dealers and suspect they may have a possible conflict of interest. I would prefer someone who works for me and my best interests.

 

[Sea Gull]

You could hire a broker to "find" you a boat, but the issue is whether the listing broker will share the commission. Probably not unless it's a large vessel. You could also hire a captain or a surveyor to represent you. Certainly you need a surveyor or two anyway, but that person most likely will not negotiate for you and probably will not help with delivery as a captain might.

Tell us where you are located and the boat you are interested in and maybe someone will have some specific advice.

 

[Hampton]

When I started looking for my next boat (current 340), I wanted to trade my 250 in. This seriously limited my opportunities, but I contacted a broker who had a 340 in Clearwater. It turns out that he was a Marine Max agent, and they didn't own the boat, so a trade in was not possible.

He began searching on my behalf and found another 340 in Miami that another MM dealer had just taken on trade. It wasn't listed yet, but he drove across the state, picked me up and the airport, drove me to the dealer, talked with the dealer, test drove the boat with me, and agreed with me that it wasn't the right vessle for me. He then drove me to the airport and kept in contact whenever something came up that might work.

When I found the boat I ended up buying, I didn't contact my MM agent. I went directly to the seller's broker and did the same thing again by myself. I always wondered if I should have used my MM broker, but after reading this thread, I bet it wouldn't have worked. It's a highly discounted broker in S Fl.

I did have a surveyor on my side, but that was all. The broker was very helpful and showed me some issues with the boat. I think he understood that it's hard to BS a BSer. I let him know I wasn't going to fall for the standard crap, and that seemed to make him turn into a normal person rather than a hard-sell salesman.

The experience was very rewarding. I did learn some lessons:

The marina which held the boat quoted me prices for work, such as having the props tuned. When it came time to pay, there was the price of the work and the price for the marina - such as pulling the props for them to be tuned. This doubled the cost of the work.

I got a quote to have canvas work done - $400. I approved the work up to $450. The bill was $650. They re-built the cockpit cover, replaced several snaps, replace a few zippers, and custom-fit 3 new poles to support the cockpit cover. It was worth the price, but not in line with my agreement. I have never used the cockpit cover, but plan to in the event of a major storm.

It cost me $4000 to leave that marina ($1750 paid for by seller). I needed to have some of the work done, and lived out of town, and didn't have a local rep, (other than the broker, who helped some). 1650 - complete detailing, buffing, waxing. 650 canvas. 500 gas. 400 prop tuning. 400 prop pulling. A couple of hundred here and there.

The next month cost me another 4000. 2000 bottom paint, new cutlass bearings, engine alignments, some gelcoat work, exhaust flapper valves...

This year, new strong seals, underwater lights, re-tuning props, new running gear paint. I've done a lot myself - new batteries, impellers, audio upgrades, windlass repair, rod holders, SS cup holders, 2 oil changes, genny work, transmission oil/filters.

Next year - please, oh, please - almost nothing.

 

[Hoo'sdave]

Hey Hampton seems like alot of work and $ for a 2 year old boat.What up just wondering.

 

[Hampton]

Hey Hampton seems like alot of work and $ for a 2 year old boat.What up just wondering.

It was splashed 30 Aug '04. So, it's 3.5 yrs old. Prop tuning - once should have been enough - there was a ding in one prop (one of a couple of signs of shallow use - thus, the strong seals).

Cutlass bearings and Engine alignments - Engines likely were not aligned when boat was new. The boat needs to sit in the water for a few days and then the engines need to be aligned.

Manifolds - 3.5 years on aliminum is just about right.

Batteries - 3+ years isn't too bad. We spend a lot of time on the hook, and only run the gen when we have to. We ran them down too much. Now have Optima Deep Cycles.

Detailing - Boat was slipped in S Fl exposed to 18 kt crosswinds at the dock without a separating pylon - Can you say bumper boats?

Bottom Paint - Original is good for 1 year only.

Impellers - 3 years is a good number

Serpentine belts - 3 years seemed right

Transmission Oil - every year

Engine oil - once or twice a year

New audio - every chance I get

Windlass - this was a broken stud inside the motor - A gen shop repaired two of them for $75.

Cockpit cover - The previous owner didn't use/didn't have the poles - filled with water and pulled the snaps loose.

This boat had 135 hours at the 2 1/2 year point. It was the previous owner's #3 boat (smallest one behind two fishing boats). It was neglected. I saved 10 - 15,000 on the price for S Fl, and upwards of 40,000 from N Fl. I knew it would need some TLC. It's getting it. By the way, if something were to occur which puts this boat back on the market - buy it fast. It now has 259 hours by the way (37 hours getting it home).

 

[comsnark]

Call me bitter. Parts of this story ring true for me.

Especially the part about the only resemblence between the "firm estimate" and "final bill" being YOUR NAME on it.

I had a pile of minor issues with my boat. . . .but it was nine years old. I am too scared to even contemplate the budget.

 

[mwph]

I am about to be a first time buyer & have been doing homework / searching for about 18 months. I plan to pay cash for a used 250-270. Am I sadly mistaken if I negotiate the price to be $X and expect to pay only $X ? And while Im at it...Im getting prices about 10-15% below list. Is this standard?

Thanks in advance,

Michael

 

[tmhudson2]

After looking at a number of boats in person, we settled on a '98-'01 290 Dancer as the best compromise for us. We looked at dozens in online ads, and several local, including one about two hours away represented by a used yacht broker in this area. That particular boat was too high priced for its hours and condition compared to some I'd seen online, so I made an offer way below asking price, which the seller rejected (It's still for sale a year later, at a lower price but above my offer). The broker did not try to talk me up, but was honest about the boat, its condition, and the seller's motivation.

Long story short, I asked him to help me find the best boat for us, best meaning that elusive compromise between the condition of the boat and its price. We finally found the right boat about 3-1/2 hours north, negotiated the deal, and he helped with hiring a surveyor, getting our new boat trailered back here, and recommending a marine mechanic to take care of servicing the drives and changing the impellers.

In our case at least, having a broker on our side may not have been absolutely necessary, but I'm glad he was there for us.

 

[fwebster]

The idea of using a buyer's broker for the purposes windjammer requires has some problems with it.

You require services either not provided by a broker or that pose a direct conflict of interest for a broker, unless you find a professional one who has applicable experience (and just because he is polished and wears nice clothes doesn't mean he know jack about boats or the art of negotiation) and hire him as a consutant that you pay by th hour for his services. Otherwise, the broker is paid whatever part of the overall commission he can negotiate from the sellers broker. This means that the more you pay for the boat, the more money YOUR broker makes on the deal, when you are using him to lower you cost.

Finding surveyors and scheduling them etc. also has a similar glitch in it.........most brokers will default to surveyors that they know they can work with (superficial) and who won't torpedo a deal. What you as a buyer really need is a bulldog who will leave no stone unturned in determining if your future boat or the engines are sound and worth the conttract price and you really don't care who's feet get stepped on or how easy the surveyor is to work with.

If you are so pressed for time that you can't to it yourself, a buyer's broker may help you find a boat, but the due diligence of surveys and sea trial and negotiating your deal should not be trusted to a commission paid agent. If you do, then you might as well approach this with "Sock it to me" written on your forehead.

 

[Sundancer123]

great comment Frank as usual- very valuable!