Burning Oil and Vibration

[Rt1069]

Just purchased a 2001 310 sundancer. Twin 350 MAG MPI Horizon motors - V Drive transmissions. Sea trialed it today and noticed the following.
Vibration at any speeds over 2500RPM, seems to be starboard side mainly based on having that side in gear vs only port side but not 100%. Likely from a prop issue based on noticing a few imperfections out of the water or misfire?
Oil burning smell. I did not notice any real hazing or smoking while underway (has underwater and side exit through hull exhaust). Smell was defiantly there. Upon inspection of exhaust port on Port side at idle at the dock, I did notice a slight smoke after I let it sit for an hour and restarted the motor. Wasn’t constant but again here is water involved likely hiding some smoke. STBD engine oil filter was leaking right onto the exhaust manifold - likely the culprit of smell?

purchase price was at the point where I can afford to do some repairs, so I am looking for insight on what to check. Compression test will be performed once home (no I didn’t test prior to purchase due to pricing, enough budget to repower if needed). It did reach 4800 rpm and held max rpm for over a minute but with the vibration.

should I be worried or hopefully it is an easy fix? Also the boat came with a 5k westerbeke factory which was removed to be rebuilt and never happened. I did get get the genset with it. Can I swap a different manufacturer or has to be a westerbeke? Everything is still there to drop a new one in.

TIA! Photo shows what I can see as some smoke in exhaust. In the photo it’s hard to tell, and it also doesn’t look blue like oil but again, water involved.

 

[Nater Potater]

Vibration at any speeds over 2500RPM, seems to be starboard side mainly based on having that side in gear vs only port side but not 100%. Likely from a prop issue based on noticing a few imperfections out of the water or misfire?

If you have concerns about the prop being damaged, also check for a bent prop shaft. Of course, it could be a misfire. Since you're getting it for the right price, base your next move on the compression check.

Oil burning smell. STBD engine oil filter was leaking right onto the exhaust manifold - likely the culprit of smell?

Externally-burned oil smells notably different from that which burns in the engine. If you've ever smelled old oil as it comes out of the oil pan during an oil change, it's like that but worse. However, if you're already concerned about compression, that could be contributing. Actually, oil leaking onto the exhaust manifold brings up a bigger red flag; fire! Please take care of that before ever starting that engine again!

Also the boat came with a 5k westerbeke factory which was removed to be rebuilt and never happened. I did get get the genset with it. Can I swap a different manufacturer or has to be a westerbeke?

'Can't help you there, as I'm no expert on these gennies. I'm sure others will chime in.

 

[Pirate Lady]

That leaking oil filter- often the cause is at last oil change the gasket stayed on the mount instead of coming off with the filter and now there are 2 gaskets on it. Check that first.

 

[370Dancer]

Do you have any info on the rebuild reason for the genset? Engine side or Electrical side? Might be worth looking into having that one rebuilt or get one already done.
change your raw water pumps (or at least the impellers) and see if the white smoke goes away. Some engines steam more than others, depending on where they are located, the condition of the raw water passages, and the temp/humidity of the day.

 

[Rt1069]

Thanks guys,
Step 1 will be a compression test once it comes back I guess. Hoping the engines are okay (more money for unnecessary accessories right?!), oil looked clean and didn't see any metal flakes.
I will say that burning oil smell does smell like old oil coming out, but we will see. Unfortunately it won't be home until Monday so looks like Monday night I will be doing a compression test and replacing plugs while they're out. I did not do a compression test pre purchase because it held RPM and I was not going to get it any cheaper even if it had a dead cylinder, but pricing was right even if a long block has to be done because I can do it myself.

Do you have any info on the rebuild reason for the genset? Engine side or Electrical side? Might be worth looking into having that one rebuilt or get one already done.
change your raw water pumps (or at least the impellers) and see if the white smoke goes away. Some engines steam more than others, depending on where they are located, the condition of the raw water passages, and the temp/humidity of the day.

Unfortunately I did not get the genset with it. I will likely look to source one and install it once I get the vibration and smell figured out. I just don't know if I have to use a westerbeke because that is what was there, or if it will work with another manufacturer.

 

[370Dancer]

Thanks guys,
...

Unfortunately I did not get the genset with it. I will likely look to source one and install it once I get the vibration and smell figured out. I just don't know if I have to use a westerbeke because that is what was there, or if it will work with another manufacturer.

The boat doesn't care what kind you use. You would have to do the rigging translation for remote start, and any other thing that might control it (like the blower switch in later models). When Westerbekes are taken care of, they are pretty bullet proof. With that year boat, I'd look for a reputable rebuild of the exact model that came out of it for simplicity.
Any oil that escapes the engine and lands on a hot surface will smell. Look at the valve covers too, and make sure you don't have a leaking gasket. Oil filter sounds like the culprit, though.

 

[Shenanigans77]

I did notice a slight smoke after I let it sit for an hour and restarted the motor. Wasn’t constant but again here is water involved likely hiding some smoke.

How many hours? 350 mag mpi are pretty stout motors. An oil puff at start up is indicative to valve stem seals. Do a compression and leak down tests. Maybe just top ends needed.

 

[Rt1069]

How many hours? 350 mag mpi are pretty stout motors. An oil puff at start up is indicative to valve stem seals. Do a compression and leak down tests. Maybe just top ends needed.

600 Hours. I'm hoping it is okay. The "smoke" shown in the picture could very well be steam, I didn't notice any puffs on startup before water circulates when it started cold. I didn't even notice any exhaust smoke or steam until I slowed a video down and screenshotted that picture. I'm praying that the oil leak that's dripping right on to the manifold is the smell. I'm thinking that is it but compression test will tell.

 

[Rt1069]

Also, this is my first V-Drive. I bought the boat from a broker, so I did not have contact with the seller and I have no previous records. To me I would like to go into it as it hasn't been serviced in years (even though filters look newer and oil looks clean).

Motors: Oil change, oil filter, fuel filter, raw water impeller, plugs, plug wires, dist cap and rotors (I've had issues in the past with them would like to change), drive belts.
Drive: Drop props off at prop shop to check for bends or imperfections if compression tests fine. I am new to V-Drives so what else should I check? Any wear bearings or anything on the shaft? Fluid will be changed as well.

 

[Pirate Lady]

RT. As you say you are new to V drives. So forgive me for saying but you asking for advice on the net. You REALLY should get a professional for this season to winterize and show you how to inspect stuff. I chased a problem from June 5 to September. Then took to pros who found the prob in 1/2 day.

 

[Rt1069]

RT. As you say you are new to V drives. So forgive me for saying but you asking for advice on the net. You REALLY should get a professional for this season to winterize and show you how to inspect stuff. I chased a problem from June 5 to September. Then took to pros who found the prob in 1/2 day.

Agreed, I will be having a professional working on the vibration issue relating to the prop and/or shaft, however I am just looking for some insight into yearly maintenance for the drive and driveline itself. Hey, that’s what forums are for right? I try to do most maintenance and repairs myself so just looking to learn.

 

[370Dancer]

Get the service manual for your engines. It will have a lot of correct answers in it. Start with the serial numbers. You should find those on the electrical box cover where the ECM is.

 

[370Dancer]

Get the service manual for your engines. It will have a lot of correct answers in it. Start with the serial numbers. You should find those on the electrical box cover where the ECM is.

 

[Tucker K5]

My 270 has side out exhaust on a switch and it puffs a lot of steam out wether the switch is flipped or not.
Freaks me out sometimes but it is just steam.
Low hours and never used a drop of oil.
I changed plugs this summer and they looked good.

 

[Rt1069]

Compression results (cold)
PORT
2 - 170 1 - 170
4 - 130 3 - 162
6 - 160 5 - 160
8 - 160 7 - 165
*Oil added to #4 increased to 155psi
STBD
2 - 165 1 - 170
4 - 155 3 - 160
6 - 150 5 - 165
8 - 170 7 - 160

Obviously not good results on PORT motor. Plug looked good though, no signs of oil burning. The boat didn't sit too long, only from late June until last week for sea trial. A few plugs definitely show a misfire, but those holes have good compression. I will be doing a leak down test even though it seems there is a ring/wall issue on #4 port, as well as putting a camera scope in there. Is it worth warming the boat up and retesting or rebuild is needed? I doubt its a stuck ring or carbon issue, but should I try and decarbon that hole, warm the engine up, and retest?

 

[Nater Potater]

Is it worth warming the boat up and retesting or rebuild is needed? I doubt its a stuck ring or carbon issue, but should I try and decarbon that hole, warm the engine up, and retest?

Normally, it's best to check them when up to temp if you're concerned about ultimate numbers, but, more importantly, you're looking for consistency from one hole to the next. That's possibly going to be your oil-burner, although I still wonder about the leaky oil filter being the main culprit of the odor.
Were it me, I'd run it. Yes, it's not optimum, but it'll still run like that. Since your vibration seemed to be focused more on the starboard side, that would look to be where the focus should lie.

 

[Rt1069]

more importantly, you're looking for consistency from one hole to the next. That's possibly going to be your oil-burner, although I still wonder about the leaky oil filter being the main culprit of the odor.

I agree, that's what concerns me is the is the inconsistency. After looking at the plug it looks to be burning good where it may not be burning too much oil. I want to get a camera in there and make sure the walls aren't all scored up before I just run it.

Were it me, I'd run it. Yes, it's not optimum, but it'll still run like that. Since your vibration seemed to be focused more on the starboard side, that would look to be where the focus should lie.

At the end of the day it has 700 hours, granted its not a TON I think it should run well with that compression for a while longer, no? The vibration I'm thinking is a misfire based on plug results on STBD side. Cap and rotor had some corrosion on the points

Thanks for your help!

 

[Rt1069]

Walls look okay. Will dig into the misfire, winterize and do my maintenance and run it.

 

[Nater Potater]

One thing I didn't think to suggest until going over another thread is that you might consider performing a leak-down test. That would confirm whether it was bad rings or a possible burnt valve. You might be able to get away with just pulling the heads. If you do find a burnt valve, make sure you don't have a plugged injector causing that jug to go lean.

 

[mrsrobinson]

I had those engines in my 2001 Monterey 302, loved them. The heads were done before I purchased it because of low compression and it could not reach WOT.

Smoke could be rich fuel as well. I think you are fine with the numbers you report, they are all within 10% if I did my math correctly. I had a leaking remote oil line for the oil filter once, replaced it, leak and smell gone. Would I replace it again? Probably not, based on the cost and it was a pain in the butt to get to. I'd only see 3-4 drips after a day of cruising.

There's not much to do with V-Drives. You can change the fluid if you want to, not sure that ever really did anything for me on my boats but I did it every year anyway. Keep an eye on the hydraulic hoses and the cooler.