Brunswick selling off Sea Ray brand

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KnotEasy, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    You have a right to be pissed.....but you are headed to be banned from this site if you continue on this course. Go to the Holding Tank and say whatever you want....if you want to get pummeled.
     
  2. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    There are lots of reasons boating is expensive and why so many manufacturers have gone out of business over time. Sea Ray has lasted a lot longer than most and the people that own them are proud to be part of the Sea Ray family. The only real question for Sea Ray and whoever buys them is: how large is the US market going forward?

    Year over year it has declined and will continue to do so. I don't blame millennials.....my own kids in that age range just don't have the interest to have that as part of their lifestyle and discretionary spending. They just are interested in other things. It is their loss but they can still enjoy it with me from time to time.
     
  3. JamesT

    JamesT Member GOLD Sponsor

    193
    Oct 7, 2013
    Longport, NJ
    2011 470 Sundancer
    Cummins 480s w/ Zeus PODs
    AADvanced, it sounds like you have an axe to grind. Go grind it somewhere else please. This is a boating forum not a socioeconomic politico soapbox.
     
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  4. okiefisherman

    okiefisherman New Member

    3
    Dec 7, 2017
    Lund
    Verado 250
    As a fellow 37 year old, who has minimal college education I'd say you are way off. If the CEO's are the ones making all the money, then BECOME a ceo. YOU alone are responsible for your destiny, and regardless of what you've heard Bernie ain't handing out free boats for everyone. I'm debt free worth 7 figures and it didn't happen overnight.
     
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  5. RubberDuckeeToo2

    RubberDuckeeToo2 Member

    422
    Oct 21, 2006
    Connecticut
    '98 370 Sundancer
    '97 SeaDoo Speedster 14'
    9.5' Caribe RIB
    7.4 Mercuisers
    The thread did take a turn for the worse, but I TOTALLY agree with ADDvanced and I'm a Boomer, not a Millennial.

    Sea Ray's plight is reflective of the industry as a whole and a microcosm of the entire economy. Without the next generations entering the consumer economy, there is no economy. When the economy fails, all our assets go with it because nothing is worth anything unless someone else wants it and can afford it. When you come right down to it, the only things worth anything are food, water, and maybe shelter (of meager means). Everything else has an artificial value set only by the market.

    The marina where I keep my boat has 850+ slips. Last season, easily 20 - 30% of the slips were empty and there were few transients coming in to fill them. What the marina did was to raise prices, not lower them, to cover the loss. They didn't increase services and do anything really to make it more attractive a destination. Guess where a lot of us are thinking of going next year? Sea Ray and the other boat manufacturers did the same. Boating is incredibly expensive now compared to what it was 20 years ago. Raising the prices and repeating the same old business model only kills the product. That's why none of us are really crazy about Sea Ray's product line. What have they done to innovate? Lipstick on a pig is still a pig. You have to think different.

    Take another look at those charts and graphics that were posted and take the time to understand them. Is it true that youth expects too much? Maybe, but that's what Socrates said about the youth of Greece at the time. If you are confident about the future, then you might be lying to yourself more than necessary.

    Gene
     
  6. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    181
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    So sort of like the US Government raising taxes rather than cutting spending?
     
    Great Lakes likes this.
  7. Bridog

    Bridog Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Gulf Shores AL / Brick NJ
    Previous 220SD, 260DA, 300DA
    Mercury 150 4S OB
    I love Pie...and pie charts. AADvanced, tone down the F words a bit. It would be a shame to see this thread end up deleted. You are clearly passionate in your feelings so express them in a way that won't get you banned. Unlesss that's your goal, which would be a shame.
     
  8. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    A quick point, this is a General Discussion thread not a Holding tank thread.

    MM
     
  9. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    Boats are expensive because everything it takes to make a quality boat has increased in price. Labor, precious metals, etc. it all costs more.

    Quick story, in 1986 a close friend was deciding between a new Sea Ray 230 Weekender. I believe, or a new 30 foot travel trailer, both were near $20K. Today one can still buy a new 30 foot TT for around $20K due to engineering and new cheaper materials. A boat is a significantly different animal, smoke and mirrors will fail in harsh marine environment and kill people. Cheaper boats use cheaper parts, but even they cannot do it as cheap as the RV industry. This makes it hard to compete with the RV industry that has been going great recently.

    MM
     
  10. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    The other point worth making here is that all these folks who are the targeted demographic for the larger boats demand that their boats now have virtually every conceivable modern convenience on them. A friend of mine ordered a new 2000 460DA from the factory built to his specs. His option cost was almost as much as the cost of the boat itself and included a hardtop, a bow thruster, a hydraulic swimplatform, air conditioners, a cockpit air conditioner, a washer/dryer, a bose sound system, an icemaker, ultra leather seating, and cockpit carpeting. If you buy a new 510DA (the closest model in actual size to the 2000 460DA) you will find that the 510 has all those features as standard equipment with no upcharge......guess what happeded to the price of boats between 2000 and 20015.

    So, has Sea Ray gone nutty with their prices or are Sea Ray buyers demanding more features ? Millennials also comprise a reasonably large part of Sea Ray's targeted demographic. So, if you millennials didn't require every conceivable modern convenience on your new boats, then more of you could afford them. That isn't Sea Ray's or the marine industry's fault.....in fact, if they are guilty of anything, it is of trying too hard to please the customer.
     
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  11. seanmclean

    seanmclean Member

    33
    Jun 13, 2017
    NJ
    '03 182
    4.3Merc
    Millenial here. Income has increased sevenfold since I entered the workforce in 2008, two homes, two cars, and a boat. Stop asking Bernie for things and go get them yourself.

    I still stand by my initial point that the SeaRay pricing for moderate dayboats is insane, talking MSRP and not 'negotiated price'. I still spent 'good car' money on a year old 24' boat, it just wasn't a SeaRay, unfortunately.
     
  12. firecadet613

    firecadet613 Active Member

    May 10, 2007
    Indiana
    '08 H240
    5.7
    Another Millennial here - I entered the workforce in '04. Really hate to see this happen to Sea Ray but the marketplace has changed drastically over the past few years. It isn't just new Sea Ray pricing that's insane - most makes pricing is out of whack. So, I've bought used.

    Four Winns has been sold a few times over the past 20 years (started out with a Sea Ray and then a few FW). I'm really interested to see who buys them and what happens.

    Opposite end of the spectrum as "AADvanced" - if you want it, go for it. No one is to blame for their destiny but themselves - we have great opportunity in this country! Too many millennials give up easily, quit when it gets tough or want it handed to them.
     
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  13. Maggieiscrazy

    Maggieiscrazy Member

    104
    Oct 14, 2016
    Northern Wisconsin
    240 Sundancer
    5.0. Bravo III
    The market is flooded with used boats. Go to boattrader.com you can find any late model low hour used Sea Ray you want at a fraction of new price. Why would anyone buy a new boat?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  14. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    I haven't read this entire thread but the above comment is part of the problem with buying a new boat these days...manufacturers like Sea Ray and Cobalt made same dang nice quality boats so it's hard to justify buying new. You can buy a really nice used boat for a good price.

    Very few people can afford the new boats of equal quality to used ones of "the good old days". The number of people who can afford these new boats are small and they are savvy with their money.

    On the flip side, the wake and ski boat market seems to still be on fire. The target market in this segment are the millennials with discretionary income who want to flaunt their incomes.

    Just my opinion...
     
  15. velooce

    velooce Member

    259
    Jan 28, 2008
    Pacific Northwest
    1977 30' Weekender
    Twin Merc 454's, Hurth straight inboards
    I am guessing that it will be a shrinking market moving forward. There is a much larger boat sharing market today and expanding. The car industry has been investing heavily in new market directions and it is probably a great time to market Sea Ray.
     
  16. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    One of my favorite boat builders was Reggie Fountain. With multiple World Championships....he could build a boat. He created many of the fast hull technology boat builders use today. Unfortunately, the US market caught up with him as well. It's just what happens when the virtual world is far more appealing than the real one to a lot of people.

    Big congratulations to the Millennials that have cracked the financial success code without setting up more gofundme sites to achieve their dreams or whining about rich people. Hopefully you can help others sort it out.
     
  17. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Thank you, John. A "GoFundMe Millennial" ! I love it!
     
  18. tdgard

    tdgard Member SILVER Sponsor

    335
    Jun 4, 2013
    Atlanta, GA
    05-270 Sundeck
    496 w/Bravo III
    I think there needs to be a pound sign...er hashtag in there somewhere.
     
  19. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    Business questions for those of you with business smarts (especially you 37 year old ceo type and millenials with two cars and two houses and such; by the way I just told my 33 year old son to go find a ceo job and he will be all set. He's hopping right on that. Now if just the other 330 million people in this country will get off their butts and do the same) - What is the purpose of Sea Ray's over inflated listed retail price only to settle on a deal for significantly less price? What does that methodology buy you?
     
  20. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    I'll speculate two reasons for that.....

    1) Price management for US Sales, International Sales and resale (similar to the automobile model).
    2) Perception management during the Sales process. If you can qualify someone on the list price.....they will "feel great" when the discounts are applied and/or they get more for a trade in.

    The bigger issue is what can be done to save the company. The reason premium off-shore brands are having success in the US is because they filled a void. Sea Ray has moved to counter that with its L Class but it will take time. I have a friend who owns two Azimuts (55' and 65') and never considered a Sea Ray because he liked the European styling. He also is not a boater and has Captains and crew to maintain them.

    While I like the L strategy.....some rationalization needs to happen regarding the boating market domestically and internationally for the next 10 years. While there is a lot of action at the low end and high end of the market, Sea Ray's core strength, in my opinion, has been the middle market.
     

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