Brunswick selling off Sea Ray brand

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KnotEasy, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    The support aspect goes a lot further than just warranty and parts. When you boat is out of warranty and you have, say, a shower mixing valve that fails, who are you going to talk to in order to just get the information you need, if you can understand them, I'm sure Tomaso or Li Chin can find the drawings but can you understand his instructions?

    With a Sea rRay, you make one phone call, you talk to a regular old American good 'ol boy who can pull the drawings and look up the vendor source….all in one phone call.

    There may be a time in the far distant future that I will consider an imported complex boat, but it it isn't on my horizon yet
     
  2. mobocracy

    mobocracy Member

    230
    Jun 29, 2014
    United States
    310 Sundancer
    350 Mag & Bravo III
    Interesting. I guess I had considered at a certain boat size threshold, a lot of "boat parts" really aren't boat parts. Like your shower mixing valve is more less a residential type shower mixing valve and you would replace it with another similarly functioning part; matching the OEM equipment isn't as important as it might be for some other application where the surrounding equipment or structure was only designed for that part.

    I follow a couple that live on a 50-ish foot trawler and he replaces a lot of ordinary parts with ordinary parts for non-marine specific applications, partly because I believe his boat was a one-off custom build for which there really isn't any list of vendors or parts bins and it doesn't matter what the replacement shower valve is provided the replacement fits the location where the old valve was and functions correctly.

    I admit I'm super naive about this, but like if my 310DA cockpit or galley sink faucet breaks, why wouldn't I just go to home depot and buy a more or less compatible faucet that works functionally and cosmetically in that space? I feel like so many parts on my boat aren't "Sea Ray" parts they're just third party stuff Sea Ray chose.

    Where the parts matter seems to be nitty gritty mechanicals (EIMs, switches, deck hardware, etc). But I'll admit to being totally off base about this.
     
  3. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Marketing and Finance in business are different and have separate missions. Investors look at both and the Executive Board look at the investors. Really, the only thing that ties it all together is the company's prospectus which is obviously post-facto with a predicted outlook. Of course we have the press which, in my opinion, are little more than self proclaimed soothsayers and produce glossy paper. That is not to say there may be something more insidious behind the issue like a significant defect in their product line; consider Takata. Consider also that, companies often must undertake capital intensive infrastructure changes to remain competitive which may also play into such operating decisions. Who really knows?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  4. see ray

    see ray Member

    226
    Sep 28, 2008
    Cleveland OH / LakeSide yacht club
    06 40DA HARD TOP. 8.1L HO 420 hp L
    I LOVE MY BOAT.
    Previous boat 05 340 DA 8.1L 370 hp
    8.1L HO 420 hp
    V Drives
    Hi just some thoughts on the subject !! The boat dealers , are having record sales, BUT !!! They now have several European
    Model Lines , it less expensive to manufacture out side of the states , so the dealer prophet margins are higher , brunswick marine had to cut MARGIN ! To be competive ,to get the dealers to sell product ,Brunswick also cut them selves out of the market with Higher pricing . It not my job to educate but
    Here are some numbers on boats sizing today a 280 SR is really a pre 2011 260, ( with very slight mods )
    The 330 is really a 300 , to replace my old 05 340', you have to buy the 370' , the 350 , is really a 330', and of course there are majore price increases on these also, compared to Pre 2011 product , 05 340 list $250k , 2012- 370 , $450k ,
    ALSO , most of the people in my yacht club ,are not impressed with the new retro looks , they like the more traditional look,
    As far as MILLENIALS , they are focused on the job , Kids and house , college , SO GUESS WHAT !!!! They used daddy's boat temporary , until they get passed these expenses , and get financially secure , then the may move to their own boat !! LOL ! Or inherit , the family cruiser.

    It's all about the share holders , and production costs and costs to finance .

    For me , GIVE ME TWIN INBOARDS , Maybe a BOW/STERN THRUSTER , COCKPIT FRIDGE to KEEP THE BEER COLD AND YOUR ALL SET !! If you can't dock or operate the boat with these items ????? ,then you shouldnt be boating LOL ,
    Pods Zues drive ???? They are cool toys BUT ARE THEY A NESSESITY. NO !!!!!!!
    How did you dock your boat in the late 70,s through mid 2005 ????
    Minimize cost ,maximize fun/pleasure , on you boat !
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  5. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Thinking about it, I think you have something there with the pricing. It does seem like there were significant price increases over the last 7 or 8 years.
     
  6. KevinC

    KevinC Active Member

    815
    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    1988 Proline Center Console - 90hp Mariner/Mercury
    1969 Boston Whaler
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    I will pass on these and and all the technology wrapping them. I love my v-drives, they work great and are simple to maintain. It's the same thing with cars today. They engines are getting more and more reliable but its all the technology and electronics that we have problems with now. I have heard of more problems with marine engines these days due to computer/sensor issues than actual engine problems if properly maintained.

    -Kevin
     
  7. mobocracy

    mobocracy Member

    230
    Jun 29, 2014
    United States
    310 Sundancer
    350 Mag & Bravo III
    It'd be great to see 30-40 ft cabin cruiser prices compared against motorhomes of comparable sizes over the last 20 years to see how the price curves vary. I suspect boat prices have gone up much faster which probably cuts into a demand, reducing volume and hurting economies of scale.

    I also think that a lot of so-called luxury goods have been chasing a narrower and narrower slice of the market at the top of the income brackets. Rather than sell more to the middle class at reduced margins, they've tried to sell less to the rich at fat margins. I guess that's great if it works, but how many units do you have to not sell to start losing money?
     
  8. see ray

    see ray Member

    226
    Sep 28, 2008
    Cleveland OH / LakeSide yacht club
    06 40DA HARD TOP. 8.1L HO 420 hp L
    I LOVE MY BOAT.
    Previous boat 05 340 DA 8.1L 370 hp
    8.1L HO 420 hp
    V Drives
    I'm surprised that a SR Rep, hasn't come on CLUB SR to
    a sure us that things are fine and in order ???
     
  9. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars

    Sea Ray has repeatedly assured customers and dealers that it is "business as usual" for them. They are like everone who has posted on all 15 pages on this thread.......they know nothing based on factual information to talk about, so I wouldn't expect anyone at Sea Ray to comment.

    The sale is a sale of a Brunswick asset and really has nothing to do with Sea Ray personnel until the company is split off and the new owner(s) take control. At that point you will likely hear more about the company's future than you can digest.

    Additionally, Sea Ray has nothing to do with clubsearay.com, they do not own CSR and they don't control the content here. If they ever publish anything, it wouldn't be here....it will be a Brunswick news release or something posted on searay.com or on the SROC site.
     
  10. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    My post #69

    MM
     
  11. AKBASSKING

    AKBASSKING Active Member

    Apr 13, 2008
    SE Alaska Summer/Columbia River winter
    1988 Yacht Fisher
    Twin 375hp Cat 3208 T/A
    I know a lot of folks here liked Rob. I guess China could always buy SR.
     
  12. mobocracy

    mobocracy Member

    230
    Jun 29, 2014
    United States
    310 Sundancer
    350 Mag & Bravo III
    I'm not sure a travel trailer is a great comparison to a boat since it obviously can be engineered to the most minimal structural standards. I would expect self-propelled motor homes to be a better comparison -- other than having only one propulsion engine, they have most of the same systems as a boat and as self-propelled vehicles a fairly high level of road-worthiness/safety standards to live up to.

    I'd expect motorhomes to be slightly cheaper because they can take advantage of the motor vehicle industry's economies of scale and buy complete chassis and drivetrains where boat hulls don't have a vastly larger parent industry boat makers can tap into besides primary propulsion engines.

    But mostly I'm interested in the rate of change for prices over time. I kind of expect boats have increased in price faster than motorhomes in ways that marine-unique qualities don't completely explain. I don't exactly know what those factors are, but maybe with Sea Ray its over-targeting of high-income demographics via excessive luxury features/materials, the incestuous relationship between Sea Ray & Mercury driving up the cost of propulsion, and probably the scale of the industry not easily able to invest in automation to reduce labor costs.

    Motorhomes are limited in their ability to use automation in construction, but they get those advantages up front buying complete truck and bus chassis where their makers have and already are highly automated. Boats only get this sort-of with engines, but it sure seems like there's room for automation in hulls and fiberglass beyond just molds.
     
  13. KevinC

    KevinC Active Member

    815
    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    1988 Proline Center Console - 90hp Mariner/Mercury
    1969 Boston Whaler
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    I think that many things have cost the boats to rise - but I feel it has been mostly driven by the expectations of those purchasing new boats. Many owners like myself probably are not looking at new boats since we readily admit we cannot afford the price of a new boat or take the hit on the depreciation that comes along with it. I have brand loyalty but in the secondary market. This is still good for companies like Sea Ray since they need a market for used boats to support their new boat sales.

    Those with the financial ability to be able to afford a new boat purchase today are also expecting a much higher level of amenities for their investment and this is driving up the cost. With boat show pricing for a 460 Sundancer being close to $1M I would expect a lot too.

    -Kevin
     
  14. Capt. Rusty Higgins

    Capt. Rusty Higgins Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    697
    Nov 6, 2006
    Florida
    The yacht delivery captain for Sea Ray Boats Inc.
    mostly 1100hp CAT/MAN
    I was here yesterday, I am here today, and good Lord willing, will be here tomorrow..... as I have been for the past 33 years. And consider that I am still a rookie compared to others around this place.

    I was employed here when Mr. Connie Ray sold his company to Brunswick, and we didn't miss a beat. There are a lot of us here looking forward to many more years of being with the best boat company in the land!

    Moving ahead the Sea Ray way!!

    Capt. Rusty Higgins
     
  15. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    You have Atlantic City on your schedule for this year?
     
  16. Boatguy49036

    Boatguy49036 Member GOLD Sponsor

    56
    Nov 4, 2017
    Marblehead , OH
    390 Sundancer 2004
    Garmin 7612 XSV
    8.1 Mercruiser
    The value in SeaRay is name, product and customer base in no specific order. There is no value in buying it and then selling it off in pieces. At some point, the price will be right and a buyer will come forward and purchase with the intention of continuing on the SeaRay legacy and with that will be continued customer service, warranty and support in my humble opinion.
     
    Ezsteps and FootballFan like this.
  17. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    And many of us are damned glad you are here and have high hopes that you will be here with us for many years to come.
     
  18. Capt. Rusty Higgins

    Capt. Rusty Higgins Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    697
    Nov 6, 2006
    Florida
    The yacht delivery captain for Sea Ray Boats Inc.
    mostly 1100hp CAT/MAN
    Arrrrr!!....Thanks Mike!

    R
     
  19. Gimme Time

    Gimme Time Member GOLD Sponsor

    707
    Jan 7, 2007
    Charlottesville, VA./ Deltaville, VA
    2006 52SB, Ray Marine E120, Garmin 7612 through BOE site sponsor,
    QSM11s
    Without Rusty the sale value would have to drop 10% or more IMHO
     
    northshore likes this.

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