Brunswick selling off Sea Ray brand

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KnotEasy, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. KnotEasy

    KnotEasy Member

    May 14, 2013
    Whitehall, Mi.
    205 Sport
    5.0L MPI
  2. CliffA

    CliffA Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Dec 29, 2009
    Lake Norman, NC
    2001 Sea Ray 340DA
    Name: 'Happy Place'
    4.5kW West. Generator
    Purchased Nov. 2014
    Fresh Water Use
    Twin Merc. 6.2L (MPI)
    640 hp (Total)
    Raw Water Cooled
    V-Drive Transmissions
    wow....that one slipped up on me.....not expected....

  3. JimG

    JimG Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2008
    Southern WV
    2007 310 DA
    Kohler 5ECD
    Twin 350 Mags
    Raw Water Cooled
    Looks like they want out of the luxury yacht boats... they are also selling Meridian. That will leave them with Bayliner, Boston Whaler, and several other pontoon and bay brands.
  4. Boston-boater

    Boston-boater Member SILVER Sponsor

    Oct 29, 2013
    2000 310 DA -for sale

    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    350 Horizons v drive

    3126 Caterpillar Diesels 350hp
    Could be the beginning of the end for searay.
  5. All's Well

    All's Well Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 14, 2010
    '12 58 Sundancer
    900 MAN
    Seriously doubt that.
    Anyone that would buy Sea Ray should see the differentiating value of quality in the brand
    There are many competitors not doing it right that allows Sea Ray to distance themselves
    david kudley likes this.
  6. BillK2632

    BillK2632 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 25, 2009
    Lake Norman, NC
    1999 185 Bowrider,
    Mercruiser 4.3, Alpha I
    Interesting, could be better, wonder if the Mercruiser bond with SeaRay will be broken. Not that I specifically dislike Mercruiser, but would nice to see some other options. I've been looking to replace my 185 and besides SeaRay I've been looking at Cobalt, you can order with either Mercruiser or Volvo. They also just were bought by Malibu Boats and I hear so far it's been nothing but good things for Cobalt. I guess time will tell.
  7. Robski97

    Robski97 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    As a 4x searay purchaser I am not happy with the direction they took. So maybe its a good thing its being sold off. They kinda alienated the real boaters to go after a market of day boaters that isn't deep enough to support the brand.

    My opinion

    WE did a focus group a few years ago... Asked everyone what their boat use was . Day boating , weekend boating etc ... The day boaters took over the group . The hardcore guys wanted stern storage lockers, wide gunnels, hard tops , the day guys wanted sun pads , walk tru windshields enclosed cockpits, canvas flybridges ... U see who won out ...
    sfergson727 and Great Lakes like this.
  8. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    I wonder what they want for it.....
    Jeff h likes this.
  9. PlayDate

    PlayDate Well-Known Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Washington DC
    1994 370 Express Cruiser
    454 Mercruisers
    I just went through Brunswick's 2016 annual report. It is an interesting read. The revenue highlight's are:
    Marine Engine $2.4B
    Boat $1.3B
    Fitness $950M

    I would speculate that the Engine business probably has the best margins. They sold off the Bowling and Billiard business in 2017 to a Private Equity company. Brunswick appears to be acting more recently as a holding company rather than having a specific focus. The Marine Engine business is far more stable and predictable. In addition, the parts business is usually very profitable.

    They don't break out the Brand revenue so what numbers Sea Ray has are not visible.

    Marine Engine only sells about 12% of their manufacturing inter company which is pretty impressive.

    Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986 for $350m. Just a guess but I would speculate Sea Ray's 2017 revenue to be $350-400m.
  10. paulswagelock

    paulswagelock Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    2018 SDX 270 OB 300 Verado
    Verado 300
    Sale price would likely be a 3-5x multiplier of profit plus assets and inventory. If they are not making any money then its value is only assets and inventory plus maybe a premium for speculative income.
  11. KnotEasy

    KnotEasy Member

    May 14, 2013
    Whitehall, Mi.
    205 Sport
    5.0L MPI
    Boattest added some to the story, and it sums up some of the issues confronting Brunswick and these brands.

    Macro-Trends Tell the Tale
    The general public has always had a misconception of how many new boats are actually sold in the U.S. In 2000, there were 342,000 new boats sold in the U.S. – outboard boats of all kinds, inboard ski/wake boats, inboard cruisers, and sterndrive boats. Today, new boat sales, in the same categories, total less than half that number.

    Hardest hit has been the sterndrive category – Sea Ray’s strong suit -- where industry-wide sales were 78,000 in 2000 and are fewer than 20,000 today. And, sales of inboard-powered cruisers are about 70% of what it was just 17 years ago. Both of these categories were Sea Ray’s bread and butter, and the markets had shrunk to a shadow of its former size.
  12. bahamabreisus

    bahamabreisus Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2007
    Hampstead NC
    500 dancer, previous 420,390,300 dancers
    detriot 8v92
    Maybe Rusty and the gang can put something together and take over.
    Razzle Dazzle likes this.
  13. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
  14. ygbsm

    ygbsm Member

    Aug 22, 2016
    Knoxville, TN
    2015 230 SLX
    350 Mag/ Bravo III
    Agreed with the boattest article. For day boats, the growth areas appear to be pontoons and inboard ski boats- areas where Sea Ray has little to no product.
    Anecdotal note- my local Sea Ray dealer (which is an excellent dealer, BTW) does not appear to have sold a single new 2017 Sea Ray model. Their Sea Ray new boat inventory has been the same all year. Frightening stuff if true.
    I would expect that if the company is sold, there will be a massive reduction in product lines.
  15. JamesT

    JamesT Member

    Oct 7, 2013
    Longport, NJ
    2011 470 Sundancer
    Cummins 480s w/ Zeus PODs
    The Boat Test article said that Sea Ray's biggest competition was from its own brand of pre-owned boats. If that is the case, the new owners will certainly have to transform the brand into something different altogether. So, assuming Sea Ray either goes bust, or the new owners take it in an entirely new direction, what's the group here think on what will happen to the value of our existing Sea Rays? I say they go up.
    Jaybeaux likes this.
  16. bajturner

    bajturner Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X 300
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Sea Ray support and availability of legacy information and parts have been major reasons I prefer Sea Ray boats. I don't view this development as a good thing if that will change.

    As for the possibility of Sea Ray becoming a defunct brand...I don't think that would be beneficial for current owners or cause values to go up.
  17. C-SIDE

    C-SIDE Member

    Sep 6, 2009
    Michigan City, IN
    2001 340 Sundancer
    6.2L w/ genny
    Warranties will either be assumed by the buyer or retained by Brunswick so I wouldn't worry.

    Sea Ray boats have become so expensive that I'm guessing their sales volume declined accordingly - probably not a guess....

    Brunswick most likely wants to sell boats they can produce and sell to the masses, which causes a more stable revenue/profit stream.

    This may ultimately be a very good thing for Sea Ray. Time will tell
  18. KnotEasy

    KnotEasy Member

    May 14, 2013
    Whitehall, Mi.
    205 Sport
    5.0L MPI
    "Brunswick most likely wants to sell boats they can produce and sell to the masses, which causes a more stable revenue/profit stream."

    That is the same thing Sea Ray should look to do going forward. L-class boats are very nice, but the market is over saturated with euro built boats like these, and the demand in North America for these is just not there. SR will need to trim back much of what they currently offer, as they can no longer afford to play catch up to other builders and make these huge day boats which have a very small demographic. Make what sells, dump what does not, all in the name of making shareholders happy, and increase profits for the brand.
  19. northern

    northern Well-Known Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    West coast Vancouver to Alaska
    380 Aft Cabin 1989 GPS and Charts by Nobeltec
    Twin 454 strait shaft
    Based on the people we meet with new big boats they are retired or close to retired. The market is getting smaller and the retired and near retired are becoming more involved with helping their children. We have friends who bailed their son out because he could not afford to keep his big house. Now they are paying for his children's education. They and many others have no money for new SeaRay.
  20. RubberDuckeeToo2

    RubberDuckeeToo2 Member

    Oct 21, 2006
    '98 370 Sundancer
    '97 SeaDoo Speedster 14'
    9.5' Caribe RIB
    7.4 Mercuisers
    "At the time (1896), Sea Ray built boats from 14’ to 46’ and is said to have had annual sales of 28,000 units a year. Today, Sea Ray’s annual unit volume is about 10% of that number."

    "When he sold the company in 1986, it had 4,500 employees and sales of $400 million....projected 2017 Sea Ray sales are $380,000 and that volume in terms of units was flat."

    That last number translates to what, three boats and .1% of previous sales? Hopefully that is a typo, but a company that is 10% of its previous size kinda says it all. The company can certainly come back, just look t Apple. However, it will take someone with vision for a different future. I don't have that vision and can't imagine what that future might look like.

    As the Chinese curse goes, 'may you live in interesting times'.


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