BR to Bahamas

Hmmm. . .once the scuppers are underwater. . . which way does the water flow through them?

Unless you pull the "flush out maneuver". . .you better hope that (1) the bilge pumps can pass more water than the scuppers. and (2) the engine is higher than the scuppers. . .
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...people with the "huge bow riders" (Chuck) are...almost...not really...bow riders. Yes they have an open area in the bow, but are as high off the water as my 240 da. A properly constructed "bow cover" with metal supports could be effective at shedding water. I've never stuffed the bow of my boat so that the nose went "underwater", like the event Gary is talking of.

Most times during a late summer, early fall crossing the waves "are" taken as a head sea. SlOW DOWN to avoid the pounding and taking water over the bow.
Most sea states are such that the wave frequency is more of a long roller than a steep chop. If it's a steep chop, turn around, anchor up at peanut island and enjoy another round of margaritas! Tommorrow is another day.

I have a set of bravo III propellers, custom pitched to 18in. That gives me the ability to run slow and stay on plane to 12mph! In the ocean, it's all about how slow you can go and stay on plane. Unless your a big boat then plow on thru!!!!!

The Lake Worth Inlet, Fla to West End, Grand Bahamas trip is roughly 60 miles start to finish. I've done it as short as 3 1/2 hours (calm) to 6 hours (holy crap rough).
The general rule for me is leave as early as comfortable in the morning, leaving the inlet as the sun is comming up. It "generally" lays down over night and doesn't pick up untill later in the morning, by then your accross the stream and on the Grand Bahamas bank. I did say "GENERALLY", all the prep you did is for the times when generally didn't happen.
 
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Nobody ever said anything about a 100+- crossing. The only thing I've said was a 42+- crossing from Miami to Bimini. At no point would you ever be 40 miles off shore. I agree a low freeboard bow rider should not be 40 miles off shore.

I don't see that 20mi or 40mi offshore much makes a difference when the unplanned, unforecast event happens. The point is that the BRs have limited capabilities under adverse conditions. Some are getting great feelings of security by traveling in a group. If it's a sunny calm day heck ya they can help each other out. Throw in a nasty squall and a mechanical problem that shuts you down and you may as well be alone because they'll all be busy. This summer we had a drowning up here. They were out fishing and it blew up some 8 footers pretty quick. They radioed for assistance and headed for shore. A large wave hit the boat right and they said it was sunk in approx 1 min. In the end a guy didn't make it. They were only a 3 miles offshore. It was just a fishing trip, ain't goin far, know this water like the back of my hand...do it all the time.
 
You know Woody, that could be said about the big boats to. Big boats venture out into larger seas than smaller boats, it's a relative thing. If you run with a big boat and try to keep up, then you could find yourself "in over your head" quickly. A 36 footer that loses power and begins to drift in heavy seas can be broched or rolled easily, especially in a breaking sea. Bad things happen to good people and there is not always a good reason why. It's a game of chance whenever you venture out into big water. Weather it's a large lake, big ocean, or huge bay.

The group security comes into play when the unthinkable happens. At least with a group when you find yourself in the water, one of the group can help keep a fix on you or best thing haul you into their boat. As a general rule I would never worry about the boat! Let it sink, buy another later, that's what insurance is for.
The fire drill when you go into the water is have a rope tied to yourself with a bouy attached to the bitter end. That makes you a much larger target for the rescue boat. Or you can throw the bouy to the rescue boat and get hauled aboard. There are many things that can be done to aid in rescue. Most are to make you "feel" more secure but all are at least proactive rather than reactive.
 
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I don't know what kind of CC you own, but there can be a world of difference between a self-bailing CC with a deep-v and plenty of freeboard and a bowrider. The CC is designed to be offshore- the bowrider is not.

Can it be done? Sure. We get flat calm days (none recently, of course) on the gulf where I've seen guys with 20' flats boats 15 miles offshore. Problem is the gulf stream crossing is a lot further than that, and you don't want to be halfway across when the weather turns. The wind howls most of the winter months, and thunderstorms rule most of the summer in the stream- it IS a big deal.

Let's say you decide to do it...
Since you live in Wisconsin, this will be a "trip of a lifetime"- with extensive planning. You plan your vacation, drag your boat 1000 miles south, and when you get to Miami you're ready to go. Unfortunately, the weather forecast isn't cooperating...but hey- I planned this for months, and the forecast isn't toooo bad... so what the hell, I'm going...

What I'm saying is that these types of trips in boats that are really not suitable for a crossing are usually taken by locals who are familiar with the stream and it's conditions, and because they are local they can jump on an appropriate weather window to give it a shot. As was said above, some go over for lunch and back the same day- and it can certainly be done on a perfect-weather day. It's definitely not the type of trip you can plan months in advance for a certain date- not gonna happen.

I had a business partner that's a pilot and kept his 33' Trojan in the Abacos. Took him an extra week and half to get home once because of the weather. True, that's flying weather but the same caveat applies. Someone already said you might get there but you don't know when you might get back.

If you decide to do it, go with a group of larger capable vessels that are experienced in making the crossing.

tobnpr you are very correct. My CC was an offshore capable model. Mike
 
I actually remember writing that... it was sarcasm...

That article talked more about the "trailering" part and then magically the boat was in the Bahamas.
 
I actually remember writing that... it was sarcasm...

That article talked more about the "trailering" part and then magically the boat was in the Bahamas.

I know, but it was a good quote:grin:
 
You know....some times you've just got to "go for it" and learn from your adventures. You're either gonna be around to tell your story...or your not. But either way...you tried.

My last boat was a 21 foot cuddy that was low profile just like a bow rider. Water conditions change so fast its almost unbelievable. I don't care what the weather man says...the water does whatever it wants. I've had the bow of that boat submerged so deep, so many times that I'm lucky to be here. The first time it happened, I had the hatch open. You would never believe the power or the volume of the water that can come through a 16x16 opening in just a second. So go ahead....rely on canvas to keep water out. Maybe you will have a good story to share with us or not.

Some people can't learn something unless they see it with their own eyes. No skin off my back side....I'm kinda the same way. You only live once....and who could ask for a better death than by sea.
 
Hopper, I agree with you, it's all relative. I'll also say that if I lived in S. Fl when I had my 270SD I would have taken it to the Bahamas. I would have lead the pack. But now I know better....after getting caught 1 time in some severe Lake Superior stuff I recognized the limitations of a BR. I recognized that because of its design I was exposing myself to increased risk. I should clarify my comment on the 270SD design: I think it was beautifully designed, a great boat, but not designed for what I was doing with it.

You are correct in suggesting a beefed up bow cover support. I can tell you from experience that waves breaking over the bow collapses the standard support. The sagging canvas then funnels the water right into the boat via the walkthru. By keeping the bow up high it reduced the amount of water coming in and some of the water actually was able to run out under the stern door. To give an idea of how much water we're talking; the stern door is a small step above the cockpit floor level. I should also say that I never speared a wave, the water came from them breaking over the top. I believe that had I speared a wave along with a shot from above it would have only happened once. My main concern was taking on water second was mechanical and yes I know any boat can have a mechanical problem.

Some that will read this might ask what was the dumba$$ doing out there anyway and that is fair question. I knew that weather was coming but it came sooner and about three times as strong as what was forecast. It was very nice when I started out. If anyone wants to imagine the conditions that BR was in, I can tell you wave length was short(the norm for Superior), waves were steep and breaking. Sustained winds near 40mph with gust well over that. How big were they?... I don't know... but when in the trough I could see the top of each wave silhouetted against the light night sky, the last near 3hrs was in the dark. I would estimate that there was about 3-4foot differece between the average wave and the tall ones. A person could say "look at that, see a BR can handle it". I can tell you I never felt so exposed and vulnerable in my life and being in a BR even made that feeling worse. That was my last ride in that boat.

I know you guys can make the Bahamas hundreds of times, I know I could have. The difference now is I think about that one time when sh-t happens and the type of boat your in becomes important(notice I didn't say size). I hope you all do to. Take my rambling anyway you want, it's just another boater and big waves story but I assure you it's true.

While my current boat is not a whole lot bigger(length) I feel that the safety factor was increased alot by the closed bow and twin engines. If I had that same experience while on my 280DA I would still mess my drawers but I'd feel more secure while doing it.
 
I can't give much advice on crossing to the Bahamas in a BR but one thing that you 240SD guys need to realize is the low portion that dips down on the bow of the 240SD makes a nice funnel when you stuff the bow and it brings in a lot of water. I know that from personal experience when I stuffed the bow on my 240SD on our little inland lake one time and a wall of water rolled from the bow to the stern soaking everything.:smt100
 
I thought you might like this quote.

Originally Posted by Four Suns
I read that very informative article on how to take a trailer boat across the gulf stream and I was obviously wrong and stand corrected.


I trailer my 280DA:huh: that would fit the bill:grin:
 
sounds like the "big boat" guys are trying to keep the Florida to Bimini run for themselves! Whats up with that? :huh:


Yeah, you're right- jig's up...

Actually, conditions should be perfect for a small bowrider Dec-Feb. Best days would be a stiff 20-25 knot northerly pushing against the gulf stream. Go for it!
 
Hopper, I agree with you, it's all relative. I'll also say that if I lived in S. Fl when I had my 270SD I would have taken it to the Bahamas. I would have lead the pack. But now I know better....after getting caught 1 time in some severe Lake Superior stuff I recognized the limitations of a BR. I recognized that because of its design I was exposing myself to increased risk. I should clarify my comment on the 270SD design: I think it was beautifully designed, a great boat, but not designed for what I was doing with it.

You are correct in suggesting a beefed up bow cover support. I can tell you from experience that waves breaking over the bow collapses the standard support. The sagging canvas then funnels the water right into the boat via the walkthru. By keeping the bow up high it reduced the amount of water coming in and some of the water actually was able to run out under the stern door. To give an idea of how much water we're talking; the stern door is a small step above the cockpit floor level. I should also say that I never speared a wave, the water came from them breaking over the top. I believe that had I speared a wave along with a shot from above it would have only happened once. My main concern was taking on water second was mechanical and yes I know any boat can have a mechanical problem.

Some that will read this might ask what was the dumba$$ doing out there anyway and that is fair question. I knew that weather was coming but it came sooner and about three times as strong as what was forecast. It was very nice when I started out. If anyone wants to imagine the conditions that BR was in, I can tell you wave length was short(the norm for Superior), waves were steep and breaking. Sustained winds near 40mph with gust well over that. How big were they?... I don't know... but when in the trough I could see the top of each wave silhouetted against the light night sky, the last near 3hrs was in the dark. I would estimate that there was about 3-4foot differece between the average wave and the tall ones. A person could say "look at that, see a BR can handle it". I can tell you I never felt so exposed and vulnerable in my life and being in a BR even made that feeling worse. That was my last ride in that boat.

I know you guys can make the Bahamas hundreds of times, I know I could have. The difference now is I think about that one time when sh-t happens and the type of boat your in becomes important(notice I didn't say size). I hope you all do to. Take my rambling anyway you want, it's just another boater and big waves story but I assure you it's true.

While my current boat is not a whole lot bigger(length) I feel that the safety factor was increased alot by the closed bow and twin engines. If I had that same experience while on my 280DA I would still mess my drawers but I'd feel more secure while doing it.

Woody, all are great observations, and you are correct.
I want to point out that my position on a gulf stream crossing in a bow rider is not something to take lightly. I am mearly pointing out that with proper planning and setting up of a "larger" bow rider it can be done. Ok...I've talked to a few who have made the crossing in a bow rider, at the Big Game marina in Bimini. Yea, I was taken aback, but never the less there they were.
It's easy to become overconfident when in south Fla. you see what people take accross the gulf stream. Doesn't excuse prudent thinking but, it happens. I would rather help a person who has it in their head to cross, than ridicule. Sometimes when a challenge is presented a person does something so over his head, you'd have to step back after wards and kick himself. Just ask me. Thanks for your feed back though. It's people like you/us that hopefully save some poeple from themselves.
I have to throw it in that most times when I arrive in the Bahamas, people tell me how crazy I am for crossing in my little boat. I just take it with a grain of salt, and ask myself, what would Christopher Columbus say to the naysayers! Ah, I'm kidding. Mike
 
Yeah, you're right- jig's up...

Actually, conditions should be perfect for a small bowrider Dec-Feb. Best days would be a stiff 20-25 knot northerly pushing against the gulf stream. Go for it!


I was just kidding....some people think there is a conspiracy out there!

I won't even go out on the river when its rough!
 
Yeah, you're right- jig's up...

Actually, conditions should be perfect for a small bowrider Dec-Feb. Best days would be a stiff 20-25 knot northerly pushing against the gulf stream. Go for it!

Since there was no indication of being sarcastic in this comment I hope everybody knew he was being sarcastic.:smt001
 
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So what did we decide? Will a bow rider sink in the gulf stream just by merely being there or can a bow rider actually make it across the gulfstream? Are owners of bow riders excluded from partaking in the fun of going to the bahamas on their boat? We've heard all kinds of advice here, from the cubans making it further distances in makeshift contraptions, to everybody being required to upgrade to a 40' boat to do this activity. I personally think you should have a minimum 40' sailboat with generator to do it comfortably and safely. There, I said it :grin:

Oh...and I've actually done the crossing several times, although never in a sailboat or a bow rider :lol: Smallest boat ironically I have done it on is a 40'er. But I say run what you brung! Just be safe about it.
 
Jim,
We can't decide yet(Grin). We havn't even made it to 10 pages of BS yet. :)
 
Jim, only problem with the 40 ft sail boat is draft. It keeps you out of alot of great coves. I know, I used to own a 52 Irwin. Nothing like being stuck on the sand bar at low tide in Great Guana in the middle of the channel! Mike
 

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