Bow stopper position / boat position on trailer (tongue weight)

[islandhopper00]

Woody for your set up, would you be comfortable with 2000lbs of tounge weight (15%)?
At 10% tounge weight, 1300lbs is manageable.
At 7% tw 900lbs looks good to me.

Will a class five "weight carrying" hitch carry 2000lbs? I'll have to look that up.
I looked it up, class five tounge weight is 1200lbs...........

Another one of my peeves is the hollow hitch ball insert. Tractor supply sells solid steel hitch ball inserts, and cost like $50.00-$75.00 bucks.

 

[islandhopper00]

Here's my set up. The angle is bad but, give it to me.



I should add, the overload springs on my dually are removed, and the rear has been lowered 2in.

 

[OldSkool]

Woody, I must agree your setup looks great. Trailer and truck fairly level. I might bring the hitch up a knotch to level the trailer more but it looks like it works for you. (There may be a sight grade sitting in the grass that I don't see)

Axels have excellent placement under the boat. The bunks look like they run the length of the hull with no pressure on the hull structure at the ends. Bow tower looks good and looks like it eliminates boat rocking.

I would pull it.

 

[MonacoMike]

First we agree he hasn't helped himself, because he doesn't help the folks whom are trying to help him....and his responces are offensive to the ones trying to help. No one jumped on him, we just bowed out. At least I did till you rubbed my fur the wrong way.

I agree, I gave him a detailed, reasoned response (copied below) that should have elicited questions from Hai Nhi but alas, not a one. Therefore it is completely logical he wants validation of preconceived notions rather than a discussion to help him understand and set his rig up correctly.

MM

I agree with GJarrett, towing a 5000 lbs. load and a 10,000 lbs. load are totally different animals if using a 3/4 ton truck. A few facts and issues on this tongue weight confusion. Most hitches on 3/4 ton trucks are rated for 5000 lbs. total and 600 lbs. tongue weight for a drawbar pull. (All weights give or take a 10% or so) The higher weight limits are for the weight distribution setup and then the tongue weight can go up to 1500 lbs. or so. The bottom line is we must find the compromise between the two maximum tongue weights for a safe comfortable ride.

As noted previously few boaters have a WD setup on their outfits so we are in a dilemma, we have a 12,000 lbs. load, no WD, and a 10% tongue weight would be 1200 lbs. doubling the maximum tongue weight for many trucks. If I were to do all the weights and math I'd bet my trailer is near 7%. I set mine using to two methods to arrive at a comfortable setup. One, does it drop the rear of the truck and how much? Two how does it feel to drive, does it sway, does the front of the truck feel light, or does it push? a one inch move on the bow stop can make a big difference in the road feel and two inches is like a different outfit.

MM

 

[MonacoMike]

Will a class five "weight carrying" hitch carry 2000lbs? I'll have to look that up.
I looked it up, class five tounge weight is 1200lbs...........

There is no "standard" tongue weight for a "class V" hitch as there is no SAE recognized class. Many manufacturers call any hitch they rate above the class IV ratings a "class V". So each user will have to check the markings on the hitch they plan to use. I don't know why but maybe if you are towing over 10K maybe they expect you to know something. LOL

Another one of my peeves is the hollow hitch ball insert. Tractor supply sells solid steel hitch ball inserts, and cost like $50.00-$75.00 bucks.

My ball and drawbar weigh like 50 pounds. Hitches and associated parts need to be watched closely. One of my pet peeves is big box stores selling 2 5/16th hitch balls rated for 4000 pounds. In the real world what trailer would a manufacturer put a 2 5/16th coupler on a trailer that would only have a 4000 pound weight rating? Maybe they make it for towing empty trailers. LOL FYI my steel 2 5/16th hitch ball rated for 22,000 pounds was $90 and they are not sold at big box stores. The point is look carefully at all your hitch parts.

MM

 

[Woody]

That boat and scale ticket I posted go together, they're not mine. He’s at 9.2% tongue weight. Compare the SR emblem on it to Hai Nhi pics. The pic in this post is mine a 280DA w/T-5.0B3, how do the three boats compare, forget about the back of the trailer temporarily, just look at the emblem relative to the wheels. What do you think? I bring up the emblem as a reference point because a different poster feels it should be centered over the middle axle, I wonder how many axles his trailer has.

It seems Hai Nhi wants an explanation to understand…like the qualifying footnotes that sometimes go with the 10-15% recommendation…but don’t exceed the tongue weight, or hitch rating, or rear axle rating of the tow vehicle. In the end they both say the same thing but it might have been clearer than sorting through this bloviated post

I agree with GJarrett, towing a 5000 lbs. load and a 10,000 lbs. load are totally different animals if using a 3/4 ton truck. A few facts and issues on this tongue weight confusion. Most hitches on 3/4 ton trucks are rated for 5000 lbs. total and 600 lbs. tongue weight for a drawbar pull. (All weights give or take a 10% or so) The higher weight limits are for the weight distribution setup and then the tongue weight can go up to 1500 lbs. or so. The bottom line is we must find the compromise between the two maximum tongue weights for a safe comfortable ride.

As noted previously few boaters have a WD setup on their outfits so we are in a dilemma, we have a 12,000 lbs. load, no WD, and a 10% tongue weight would be 1200 lbs. doubling the maximum tongue weight for many trucks. If I were to do all the weights and math I'd bet my trailer is near 7%. I set mine using to two methods to arrive at a comfortable setup. One, does it drop the rear of the truck and how much? Two how does it feel to drive, does it sway, does the front of the truck feel light, or does it push? a one inch move on the bow stop can make a big difference in the road feel and two inches is like a different outfit.

MM

 

[Woody]

Woody for your set up, would you be comfortable with 2000lbs of tounge weight (15%)? No, my tow vehicle and it's components couldn't handle that.

At 10% tounge weight, 1300lbs is manageable.
At 7% tw 900lbs looks good to me.

Will a class five "weight carrying" hitch carry 2000lbs? You can get class V WC hitches that'll handle that and more but I think it would be pointless with the limitations or our trucks, mine for sure. I'll have to look that up.
I looked it up, class five tounge weight is 1200lbs...........

Another one of my peeves is the hollow hitch ball insert. Tractor supply sells solid steel hitch ball inserts, and cost like $50.00-$75.00 bucks. I agree and have a solid cast steel unit myself.

...

 

[MonacoMike]

It seems Hai Nhi wants an explanation to understand…like the qualifying footnotes that sometimes go with the 10-15% recommendation…but don’t exceed the tongue weight, or hitch rating, or rear axle rating of the tow vehicle. In the end they both say the same thing but it might have been clearer than sorting through this bloviated post

Woody, Go shovel some more snow. That is the elementary explanation you say Hai Nhi wants. It gave the background and the trade offs we real world users battle as we set up our rigs.

Nice rig you have there.

MM

 

[Woody]

Woody, Go shovel some more snow. That is the elementary explanation you say Hai Nhi wants. It gave the background and the trade offs we real world users battle as we set up our rigs.

Nice rig you have there.

MM

:smt043I think the plow will be scraping snow banks on both sides after this next storm.
MM, I'm guessing too, he keeps asking. Let me make an example of this. If I knew little this explanation of why 7% is ok rather than 10% would be confusing. I know we don’t want the load moving around on the trailer, tie downs are important. I know we need to be able to stop, brakes are important and both are a given, but explain the physics here…how do the brakes or tie downs dictate trailer tongue weight? I know you wondered that when you read it, too. I wonder what GJarrett's tow vehicle was.

I've also always heard 10%, but I got the 7% figure from this guy when I bought a new trailer from him. http://www.bobsboattrailers.com/

I live in SC and bought a 240 Sundancer w/o trailer from a military guy at the Norfolk VA base, and bought the trailer to get it back home. Bob came with the highest referrals I could find for the area and has decades of experience. I asked him why he was setting tongue weight to 7% not 10% and he said with good trailer brakes and proper tiedown, 7% works fine for heavier loads.

I still use 10% for my other lighter trailers. However, after the traffic incident that I survived pulling the boat, I am confident it is completely fine at 7%. What happened was that I was in the right lane of an interstate doing 65 mph when someone on an entrance ramp tried to merge into my right side. I had to hit full braking (engaging ABS) while at the same time abruptly swerving into the lane to my left (which also had traffic that was bailing out to their left shoulder when this happened). The boat/trailer tracked behind me properly.

 

[MonacoMike]

Woody, would it be clearer if I said the books and manuals saying 10-15% tongue weight are typically expecting a weight distributing hitch set up that few boaters use, so the 10-15% number will be too high without the WD, so 7% is a reasonable compromise to fine tune from?

What tie down points do you use?

MM

 

[MonacoMike]

One point to Hai Nai pertaining to whom to trust concerning trailering setup and safety advise. There are not that many people out there trucking hundreds of miles with a 10,000 pound plus boat outfit. This forum has a good group of experienced users that if some ding dong comes in here and promotes unsafe actions that poster will be corrected or ran out quick. As far as what dealers know, I've not been impressed by what I've seen over the years from them, many seem to know less than the real users here. As for the book it assumes perfection and then offers dozens of disclaimers and variables. While I wouldn't trust unconditionally one opinion from this forum if several experienced posters agree they are giving you very reliable advise.

As you can see we even spar when we agree, you should see the blood bath when we do not. (Think generator thread)

MM

 

[Woody]

One point to Hai Nai pertaining to whom to trust concerning trailering setup and safety advise. There are not that many people out there trucking hundreds of miles with a 10,000 pound plus boat outfit. This forum has a good group of experienced users that if some ding dong comes in here and promotes unsafe actions that poster will be corrected or ran out quick. As far as what dealers know, I've not been impressed by what I've seen over the years from them, many seem to know less than the real users here. As for the book it assumes perfection and then offers dozens of disclaimers and variables. While I wouldn't trust unconditionally one opinion from this forum if several experienced posters agree they are giving you very reliable advise.

As you can see we even spar when we agree, you should see the blood bath when we do not. (Think generator thread)

MM

I understand but the generator threads are a good example, often new people asking about what seems to be a dead horse to the old timers...the answers reek of ipse dixit...heck, most people didn't like it when their mother would say 'because I said so'. But why Mom...'you don't have to know why because I said so'.

 

[OldSkool]

So lets take a breath here. Where's Hai at??? We're beating the keys trying to keep up with each other and he's not been heard from since post 39.:smt017

Are you still with us Hai Nai?

 

[islandhopper00]

Who cares at this point if Mr. Hi Nhi is here. This thread has some good information in it now. Glad we could be somewhat civil here and get the info out. We are actually fighting the same points from different directions.

Woody your trailer is or at least looks to be coated steel....yes? You can get away with alot more than us aluminum guys.

Mike, I didn't know that about class v hitches. I just looked up class v on yahoo and read the first item listed. It had 1200lbs listed. I never had to go that far because I'm towing a measly 7500lbs! Haha

 

[Woody]

Had stuff to do and just got done with a middle of the snow storm plow, sure is pretty out there and quiet.

 

[Hai Nhi]

Hello everyone. I'm still following the post. It's just been incredibly busy with some hick-ups at work.

I'll try to spend some time and post some pictures and some clarifications and what not later. As of now I'm still on the road trying to resolve work-related issues first before taking a break this weekends.

But, just a couple of quick notes:
- as my last post trying to apologize if what I posted offended anyone: I really don't mean so. Just the way I present the info (or the lack of) I guess. I still think I need to provide more in order to get better help.
- the trailer is bent a bit but from I think from previous use, not since the previous owner bought it.
- as in my profile: trailer rating is 15600 lbs, transom is within 2-4" of the rear frame. Boat is 8500 dry weight according to spec only. I still have not weighed mine yet. Truck is 2012 f350 with class V hitch. Right now when hooked up, trailer is level, truck is not sagged.
- towing about 10-12 times (30 mins - 3 hrs) without swaying or tongue sagging. All 3 axels with electric over hydraulic disc break.
- I've only scanned through most of the posts. I'll spend more time re-read them over to extract more info.
- thank you all for posting, especially those constructive posts. Other posts: again it's not that I only want to follow what I want to hear. It's just that some time information is contradicting. That's why I'd only like to know for sure which information is reliable enough, especially on safety issues such as this. That's all. I mean, if I listen to Mr A, But Mr B & C also suggest something, then I'd like to also re-consider all, and hopefully consolidate & extract all the good points from all 3. Or something along those lines. Hehehe.

Anyway, it is a very nice day out here in N Ca. I wish I could take the boat out for a spin but couldn't until at least next week. How about where you're at?

Have a great weekends everyone. I wish you all have a much less stressful weekends then mine.

Nhi <== this is my real first name btw. And, if any one passing by the Bay Area and need something, just let me know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Woody]

Just got done plowing snow again...I think I'm going to learn how to make an igloo, that way I'll be ready if this global warming continues.