batteries charging and amperage and Raydomes

[ieyp35d]

I am cross posting this question here as when as sports cruisers, as I am not sure where this would be most appropriate (as I have specific questions regarding the set up of my model)

I seem to be having a problem with a raymarine 2kw raydome which I believe is coming from the batteries not holding/providing adequate amperage over time. The raymarine raydome is connected to a c70 unit with gps antenna on a 1994 sea ray 330da/sunbridge.

Every so often - and now more frequently, while underway with the raydome in operation the radar will just quit transmitting. "No data source." will often be displayed. After getting back into the slip and hooking up to shore power, the raydome "magically" comes back on, powers down in standby mode (you will actually see a count down on the screen suddenly appear counting down to when the unit will put the raydome into standby) and then start working again.

I contacted Raymarine who blames the batteries: Their specific response is ". This may be related to power, if the dome is intermittent and does not turn on correctly which is what this sounds like you need to check the DC connections to the dome and make sure the batteries are fully charged, if on a sail boat and there is a splice in the antenna cable this needs to be checked as well."

I have sanded all connections to the batteries with sandpaper to reveal the underlying nontarnished metal and reconnected the batteries. Similiarly, the contacts under the dash have similiarly been treated.

Thus - my questions: I am in the habit from my prior boats of turning the battery switches to off when leaving the boat for a few days. Do the batteries charge in the "Off" positions? My prior boat had a breaker at the panel which stated "battery charger." No such switch exists on this boat at all. The only switch which is similiar is "AC converter." I can't figure out what this does or where the converter is located.

I am uncertain as to the age of the two batteries in that I purchased the boat used this past winter. Any recommendations as to make/type of batteries which I should replace the existing batteries with? Again, this is predicated on my potentially learning from you all that my attempts to minimize electrolysis from prior experience by turning off the battery switches has inadvertantly led to me never allowing the batteries to charge. Similiarly, if anyone else has had this experience with Raymarine raydomes and has found a simple solution I am overlooking, please let me know!

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[boatmailster]

I am cross posting this question here as when as sports cruisers, as I am not sure where this would be most appropriate (as I have specific questions regarding the set up of my model)

I seem to be having a problem with a raymarine 2kw raydome which I believe is coming from the batteries not holding/providing adequate amperage over time. The raymarine raydome is connected to a c70 unit with gps antenna on a 1994 sea ray 330da/sunbridge.

Every so often - and now more frequently, while underway with the raydome in operation the radar will just quit transmitting. "No data source." will often be displayed. After getting back into the slip and hooking up to shore power, the raydome "magically" comes back on, powers down in standby mode (you will actually see a count down on the screen suddenly appear counting down to when the unit will put the raydome into standby) and then start working again.

I contacted Raymarine who blames the batteries: Their specific response is ". This may be related to power, if the dome is intermittent and does not turn on correctly which is what this sounds like you need to check the DC connections to the dome and make sure the batteries are fully charged, if on a sail boat and there is a splice in the antenna cable this needs to be checked as well."

I have sanded all connections to the batteries with sandpaper to reveal the underlying nontarnished metal and reconnected the batteries. Similiarly, the contacts under the dash have similiarly been treated.

Thus - my questions: I am in the habit from my prior boats of turning the battery switches to off when leaving the boat for a few days. Do the batteries charge in the "Off" positions? My prior boat had a breaker at the panel which stated "battery charger." No such switch exists on this boat at all. The only switch which is similiar is "AC converter." I can't figure out what this does or where the converter is located.

I am uncertain as to the age of the two batteries in that I purchased the boat used this past winter. Any recommendations as to make/type of batteries which I should replace the existing batteries with? Again, this is predicated on my potentially learning from you all that my attempts to minimize electrolysis from prior experience by turning off the battery switches has inadvertantly led to me never allowing the batteries to charge. Similiarly, if anyone else has had this experience with Raymarine raydomes and has found a simple solution I am overlooking, please let me know!

Any help would be greatly appreciated

1) ac converter=battery charger
2) load test your batteries (load test, not voltage check!). most likely "house" battery is not holding charge (that is battery what is being used by electronics) and alternator is undercharging or not charging at all that battery. that is why it starts working when on battery charger
3) batteries are being charged with switches off and charger (converter) on, assuming that fuses on charging wires are ok

 

[B-Rock]

I just had...actually still have the same problem with my brand new 36 Sedan Bridge. While underway, the radar will just stop transmitting, and displays a power array failure. Sea Ray blamed the problem on Raymarine.....the Raymarine guy blamed it on the batteries claiming a voltage issue on the boat. Sea Ray replaced four batteries in the boat with brand new batteries, and the problem seemed fine for 2-3 weeks. We are now having the same problem, and are awaiting a resolution from Sea Ray on this. Sea Ray told me to always run my generator while underway (I did not always run it), however, I did try, and found the same result even with the generator running. I will post back in the next week once my Sea Ray dealer figues out what is going on. Keep me posted if you find anything as well!

 

[Asureyez]

Big Boats are HUNGRY!

Big boats with lots of amenities use more of everything including power. Keeping the batteries switched to both, keeping the genny running when under way and making damn sure the battery converter breaker is on are all important to keeping batteries peak and electronics running properly.

If you have a lot of folks aboard try to get them to not run every 12 volt lamp in the cabin as every bulb consumes about 2 amps @ 12v 20 watts. Ten bulbs is 20 amps!

Run the Genny when underway. You probably have 30 AMP Alternators which just aren't enough to keep up with the 12V demand of a big power consumption boat

The Raymarine gear will have a voltage tolerance from around 11 volts to 18 volts (check the manuals) but when voltage sags below safe operating range the internal protection circuits shut things down. Your satellite gear, the same issue.

I suspect you have some big 12V consumers on line all the time and are hoging major AMPS.

One thing to check. If you have a 12V/120V fridge, make sure you keep the fridge switched to 120 volt and the 12V breaker off. If you have a similar one or more cockpit frig/icerettes that are auto switching keep it on 120 by kicking off the 12V accy breaker for that unit.

If you boat has two or more 12V water pumps, keep one shut down and use just one at a time.

Just some thoughts to conserve, but then you could always just get more and bigger batteries!

 

[osd9]

Why would you need to run the generator to charge the12v systems while underway? Wouldn't the engine alternators charge the batteries the same as the AC Converter would? And would having the engine generators and the AC Converter on at the same time and both charging the batteries be OK?

 

[Asureyez]

Its a matter of degree.

Typically the alternators are 30-40 amp and are fine for keeping batteries charged within limits.

As I noted in the above post, leave ten 12v lamps on and you've nearly tapped out one alternator. Let the Sat TV, Radar, VHF and refrigeration units all slam away on 12V and you better go buy Balmar 120 amp alterantors.

Simply because its low voltage doesn't mean its low draw. Let some corrosion ad resistance to every connection and well things really go down hill in 12V, IN A HURRY.

The reason you run the genny is to produce adequet power to the AC converter to keep the batteries up.

Think about it this way. If your boat has a 30 AMP 12V charger and your boat is using 80 AMPS an hour, your batteries are going negative 50 AMPS an hour. A 200 AMP battery is winded after just two hours and is on life support after 4 hours.

Your batteries are charged by either the 120volt through the Converter or the Alternator(s) through a regulator which governs the Alternator output to prevent a meltdown from over demand. Diodes protect each supply source from being back fed.

When 12V systems begin going off line, there is a consumption to supply issue.

We don't know how this boat is operated but the problem does tell us that conservation might be important to a solution and to get more juice in to the batteries the other.

Hence, run every supply source you've got to get more juice. All sources of 12V will charge the batteries when run through a common buss. If there are voltage variations on the supply side there are normally diode blocks put there by smart people to combine sources and provide common buss.


The OP might have other hardware issues, but my money from what I know now is, its a question of consumption vs. supply because we have new batteries.

 

[osd9]

Chad:

I appreciate your response and I certainly understand the need for more amps under many condtions.

I have been told by many including the MM Technicians to ALWAYS turn off the AC Converter before starting the engines. You note that there are diodes to protect each source....and that makes sense. I wonder why the MM techs don't know that?

 

[Asureyez]

AC Converter..

I think this is a very different issue than is being discussed, but that recognized a converter receiving power from a 120 v source will supply power to the banks and engine starter draw needs all the oooph! it can get. What happens when there is no 120V souce and the converter switched on will take some research.

This nuance may have valid reasons. But I can't see why anyone would have the Converter switched on when no 120V source exists other than being forgetful or sloppy. But once the genny is running and the converter on, starting the mains should pose no issues to either the engines, the batteries or the charger.

Perhaps this was specific to one brand of charger or individual boat wiring design?

 

[osd9]

I didn't mean to imply that the converter be switched on without a 120v source. I was talking about, for instance, the boat is in the slip, plugged in with the AC converter on (and a 120v source supplying power to the AC converter). In the situation above, I was told, by Technicians, to alwasys turn off the AC Converter before starting the mains.

 

[Asureyez]

???

Dominic I do not doubt the Tech's told you this, I'm just at a loss as to why?

Let me give you the 20,000 ft look down view of my start up proceedures and lets see what is different. Mind you this is not my pre-flight check list so don't nit me on the nuances like blowers etc.

1. Start Genny
2. Turn off all 120 Breakers
3. Switch to Generator 120V Power
4. Turn on all desired 120 Breakers (inc Converter)
5. Switch on Engine Keys
6. Start Port Engine
7 Start Stb Engine
8 Shut off Shore Power breaker at supply
9 Bring in Shore Power cable.

These are the Big steps to get all engines going and power switched from dock supply to generator on the boat. I'm still on a the factory stock silicone rectified solid state charger. This charger services only the two 8D batteries. The Genny is serviced by the genny and the thruster & windlass is serviced by a separate charger.

I'd be very courious as why the TECHs want the Converter isollated duruing engine starting ... perhaps you can ask sometime ?

No where is is necessary to turn off the AC Converter to start the engines. Even the engine alternators are diode protected from surges back feeding.

 

[Four Suns]

In my droning thread on crusing the chesapeake for a month, I talked about my weiner converter not being able to keep up with the 12v load... I don't have a problem with the engines running but I also have big alternators (upwards of 80A each I would guess) on the diesels. You do have to watch the 12v budget as, even with the converter on or engines running, you can make the batteries go dead... been there... done that...