Argument for a good Radar system?

[2000SR380]

Sorry about the grainy images but these were taken with an iPad, through isinglass, under some duress :0) So... we are heading out the Golden Gate on our way South to Monterey. It is about 11:00AM, and the FOG Bank is lurking just outside. Our Sea Ray 380DA was new to us in October, so I am still learning the electronics, and we are watching an odd echo, or 'repeat signal' west of the bridge. I start turning to port 'just in case'... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VYbRPK3_cQ

I catch a glimpse of the tower through the fog, and get my wife to point the camera toward the suspect blip on the radar screen........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvEqFAptGJs

Wheee Ha! THAT is a BIG ship!!...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiMvggaFPf0

 

[Ididntdoit]

So you are inexperienced at using your electronics and on plane in the fog - glad it ended well

 

[Gimme Time]

One of the best tips I learned on this site some time ago was to run Radar all the time even on the best days to learn how to use it and always compare it to what you see as well as your chart plotter. This way you know how it works and what it looks like compared to either your overlay and your paper charts so you A. fine tune it, B. learn to trust it and be ready when you have to depend on it. Some of the best advise I've received and learned.

 

[2000SR380]

One of the best tips I learned on this site some time ago was to run Radar all the time even on the best days to learn how to use it and always compare it to what you see as well as your chart plotter. This way you know how it works and what it looks like compared to either your overlay and your paper charts so you A. fine tune it, B. learn to trust it and be ready when you have to depend on it. Some of the best advise I've received and learned.

This is excellent advice, and we have done it with all our boats. Even on the commercial fishing boat I worked for a couple of years. Captain Jeremiah Francis Brady was a pretty good teacher. The radar hit on this ship was connected with the radar hit on the bridge. It was enough different from what I expected that we begin turning to port well in advance, but we did not really identify the radar hit as a ship until well after we had gone evasive. Our boat was not in the fog, and did not enter the fog bank until well after we had avoided the ship, so this was not really a situation where I would normally be sounding my horn. The ship was not sounding a fog horn.

 

[2000SR380]

So you are inexperienced at using your electronics and on plane in the fog - glad it ended well

LOL, Well, if you put it THAT way :smt100 I am glad it ended well too! Uummm ... Not my first day:grin: We had not entered the Fog Bank yet, we had at least 1/4 mile visibility forward and a minimum of 5-10 mile visibility behind us, and to the sides. Looking at the first and last picture you can see that we had made almost a 30 degree change in course based on what the radar showed, and well before the ship was visible. In the last video you can hear me say that we will have to slow down as we entered the fog bank. And we did. The radar on this boat is Ray Marine and it is at least as good as any I have ever worked. It can pick up atons, and channel markers, and small fiberglass boats. However, it is integrated into a complex display that does fish finder, chart plotter, and radar. I had it set on split screen Radar/Chart Plotter (and the Radar array running) as soon as we saw the Fog at the Gate. You really do not want to be pushing buttons, selecting screens, and figuring out control menu's when you need the information! There are lots of screen options, and a ton of menu selections. Most of my experience has been in much slower boats. In hundreds of trips out the Gate I have never been nose to nose with a huge ship with 30 knot closure, and I have never had such a gigantic ship so obscured by the bridge's radar shadow. Once, during a night approach to the Coronado Islands on a delivery, our radar painting the first island was showing a bigger and bigger display much faster than it should have been. I was watching the depth and plotting position on a paper chart, but the radar picture was very disconcerting. It made it look like a strong current was pulling us much faster toward the island than the other instruments indicated. Turned out there were three large fishing boats headed across our path, right in line like a train, and very close to the island! My point is, this was not the first time I was uncertain of what the radar was showing and will not be the last. As '727' pointed out, I did learn something. Next time I see that sort of combined reflection I will know what I am looking at and it will be less exciting when a gigantic ship materializes out of the fog bank.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I think a freighter emerging from the fog would be an exciting experience regardless of your "experience" level. It's challenges like this that makes flying and boating so much fun.

A couple of years back we were coming home from a weekend in Boston in the fog. I was just barely on plane at about 15 knots. All of a sudden a sailboat appeared about 30' to our starboard side on a converging course. After a few seconds of veering off, two things came to light; I was a f****ng idiot for even going that fast, and the boss's opinion of radar had gone from another toy for Henry to a boating necessity.

2KSR380, in your neighborhood you might consider adding AIS. This will id all commercial traffic and will help in separating targets when there are multiples in close proximity. Considering that if the Koreans are driving not even bridges are safe it might be helpful in keeping out of their way.

Henry

 

[2000SR380]

A couple of years back we were coming home from a weekend in Boston in the fog. I was just barely on plane at about 15 knots. All of a sudden a sailboat appeared about 30' to our starboard side on a converging course. After a few seconds of veering off, two things came to light; I was a f****ng idiot for even going that fast, and the boss's opinion of radar had gone from another toy for Henry to a boating necessity.

2KSR380, in your neighborhood you might consider adding AIS. This will id all commercial traffic and will help in separating targets when there are multiples in close proximity. Considering that if the Koreans are driving not even bridges are safe it might be helpful in keeping out of their way.

Henry

LOL, true enough about the bridges. Makes you wonder sometimes. The only AIS we have is on the iPad, and my cell phone. It is great but it burns up battery and data pretty fast. You can bet we turned it on anyway! Until we were clear of the Fog again. And we slowed to eight knots once we were inside the fog line. Next time I will light up the iPad when I turn on the Radar. THAT was a little laps in seamanship on my part. I had the technology and did not use it. It would be cool to have it built into the boat systems, and I would like a separate, stand alone, chart plotter. There is always a 'list' right??

 

[Alex F]

You didn't say if your VHF was turned on. If you scan at least CH13 and CH16 you should have heard a securite call made by the ship announcing its position and heading. Hearing this info would have greatly help you understand your expectation regarding the blimp on the radar.

There are way too many people driving way too fast in poor viz. Slowing down will provide much safer voyage.

 

[2000SR380]

You didn't say if your VHF was turned on. If you scan at least CH13 and CH16 you should have heard a securite call made by the ship announcing its position and heading. Hearing this info would have greatly help you understand your expectation regarding the blimp on the radar.

There are way too many people driving way too fast in poor viz. Slowing down will provide much safer voyage.

I agree that too many boaters go way to fast in the dark and Fog. I am always amazed at the boats zooming by us in low visibility conditions. I like to believe I am NOT one of them:smt001 In this case the fog bank was pretty well defined just past the bridge, and we slowed down to 8 knots as we went under the bridge. Note that in the last video you can clearly see the entire ship as we go past it. Once inside the fog, and moving at 8 knts, we worked our way between two passenger ferry boats, a sailboat, and about a 50 foot flybridge cruiser. Everybody had a nice clear radar signal and everybody was moving at speeds reasonable for the conditions. Once outside the San Francisco bar we did not get within 10 miles of another boat until we were well inside Monterey Bay in beautiful clear conditions. We always monitor VHF Channel 16 when we are underway. Although we saw the fog bank, and had radar and chart plotter set and running well in advance, we also had an iPad with AIS capability that was not on. Until after we were past the ship:grin: I am slow to run the app because it uses a lot of data and runs down the batterey. We were in the first 1/2 hour of a 5 and a half hour trip, and our boat was not yet into the fog. As it turns out this was an error on my part because the AIS would have shown us the giant ship well before it was even in range of our radar.

 

[Alex F]

.... we also had an iPad with AIS capability that was not on. Until after we were past the ship:grin: I am slow to run the app because it uses a lot of data and runs down the batterey. We were in the first 1/2 hour of a 5 and a half hour trip, and our boat was not yet into the fog. As it turns out this was an error on my part because the AIS would have shown us the giant ship well before it was even in range of our radar.

Does it mean you have an AIS receiver or transponder, which is broadcasting WiFi and your iPad is on that network showing you real time data on one of the Apps?

 

[2000SR380]

Does it mean you have an AIS receiver or transponder, which is broadcasting WiFi and your iPad is on that network showing you real time data on one of the Apps?

No, there is an app called "Boat Beacon", for iPhones and iPads. It is effectively a transponder and shows your location and other AIS signals on a map. When it is on it will share your information with other AIS users, and it allows you to send your location speed and direction to people monitoring your float plan. It is a very cool app (if you turn it on), but it does use a lot of your data minutes and drains your phone's battery about as fast as running a street map direction app.

 

[SR400DB]

You didn't say if your VHF was turned on. If you scan at least CH13 and CH16 you should have heard a securite call made by the ship announcing its position and heading. Hearing this info would have greatly help you understand your expectation regarding the blimp on the radar.

There are way too many people driving way too fast in poor viz. Slowing down will provide much safer voyage.

I have boated on SF Bay on and off for the past 11 years, I do not recall ever hearing a Securite from an inbound/outbound ship unless there were unique issues with a particular ship/cargo. I would monitor and contact the VTS for SF Bay via VHF and get info that way, but it is not broadcast typically to my knowledge.

 

[2000SR380]

I have boated on SF Bay on and off for the past 11 years, I do not recall ever hearing a Securite from an inbound/outbound ship unless there were unique issues with a particular ship/cargo. I would monitor and contact the VTS for SF Bay via VHF and get info that way, but it is not broadcast typically to my knowledge.

I am 55 so I can see your 11 years and raise you about 22 more. I do like to monitor VHF-16 while under way, and I have heard excited and unhappy transmissions (more than a few times) from ships attempting to contact smaller boats that were blocking the channels, or sailing right into their intended path. These are usually followed by 5-blasts on the biggest horn they have. I have also heard Coast Guard notifications regarding your "particular Cargo" vessels. The broadcasts are not as un-nerving as the Protectors (with the 50 caliber guns up front) typically escorting the "particular Cargo" vessels. Sometimes they are just about a HUGE crane coming in for the Bay Bridge work, or vessels with an extended tow. Mostly I monitor Chanel-16 because I do not want to be blindly passing fellow boaters in distress whom I may have been able to help. In this case I think our move was early enough, and big enough, that our VHF stayed silent on C16, and no horns were sounded. I thought it was really impressive the way that huge ship was so well hidden just inside the fog bank, and seemed to materialize and grow at an alarming speed. The lessons I took away were that I should have turned on the iPad and lit up the AIS App. way earlier than I did, and I was wise to steer away from the spot where radar hit was difficult to understand. I think given the equipment we had, and the conditions encountered, the actions I took did not suck, but I will allow that since we had the AIS capability, I was foolish not to take advantage of it sooner. Like as soon as I saw the fog bank. Even at 55 I am still learning every trip!

 

[ssousa]

FYI, in a CBDR ( constant bearing decreasing range) you turn to starboard. You only turn to starboard when avoiding another vessel

 

[sdleo26]

Pretty good thread.... I have to get that boat beacon app... thanks!

 

[2000SR380]

FYI, in a CBDR (constant bearing decreasing range) you turn to starboard. You only turn to starboard when avoiding another vessel

This is true if there is no restriction to your movements, you are head to head with the closing vessel in close proximity, and you have not made passing agreements via radio or sound signals. Obviously, if the closing vessel is off your starboard side you would not turn into it, correct?? As far as Colregs, in the situation on video, the ship and I (if we saw each other)would have exchanged "two short blasts" and passed Starboard to Starboard. Neither of us would have altered course to starboard. Aboard our boat the radar contact was blended with the contact line for the bridge and was a good distance (at least a quarter mile)off our starboard bow. We had lots of open water on our Port side, with good visibility. Turning to Starboard would have taken us across the bow of the incoming ship, and into a much more restrictive piece of water. Uncertain of exactly what was past the fog line, we chose the course with the best visibility and the most room to maneuver. If I had known exactly what I was looking at on the radar, I would have made the same decision.

 

[Gofirstclass]

200SR380, don't count on a ship that size and that far away hearing the wimpy horns SR puts on their boats. If you really want to be heard get an air horn that puts out some noise.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Another argument for AIS, with that integrated to your VHF you can get on the VHF knowing the vessel name and call sign and either state your intentions, or ask theirs.

Henry


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[2000SR380]

200SR380, don't count on a ship that size and that far away hearing the wimpy horns SR puts on their boats. If you really want to be heard get an air horn that puts out some noise.

Actually, I have a very nice 3-foot air horn in my shed right now. Have not figured out for sure how I will mount it, yet, but on a clear day you might be able to hear it in Washington :grin: Here in San Francisco Bay, I have never heard a ship exchange sound signals with smaller vessels other than the five blast danger signal. I think you would be lucky if 10 percent of the smaller vessels even know the correct sound signals. I only know them because I took the USCG Boating Safety Class, and the USCG Captains Class. Calling a closing vessel by name, on the VHS and armed with the AIS information as per Henry's suggestion, is probably the best option. The air horn is more for wind surfers and kayaks:smt014