Anti-rust winterization

[Arminius]

Reviewing the Mercruiser manual for the 4.5, using a raw water cooling system, it appears that the recommendation is to drain the system for short term freeze protection (remove blue plug and turn blue handle) but to refill it with propylene glycol if full winter storage is anticipated. Why refill it? The book says to prevent exfoliating corrosion. Wiki says "In metallurgy, exfoliation corrosion is a severe type of intergranular corrosion that raises surface grains from metal by forming corrosion products at grain boundaries under the surface." Is it merely that Mercruiser is protective of their new block? An additional possibility is that they have a special concern regarding the cooling passages of their in-house aluminum heads. The secret of the ability of auto manufacturers to increase compression ratios including GM's 11.5:1 compression on regular seems to be the cooling of the heads. GM waged a patent war over this technology. The 4.5's 9.4:1 on regular in the heavy duty cycle of marine usage seems to be pushing it and that might be another reason for recommending adding anti-freeze after draining the engine. Nobody should get the idea that sucking pink-antifreeze through the muffs w/o draining is going to protect an engine from freeze damage. pgs 94 on, http://www.mercurysport.com/Files/4-5l-6-2l-mpi-operation-and-maintanence-manuel-2017.pdf
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If it were my fresh water, raw water cooled 4.5, I'd just pull the blue plug, turn the blue handle, and forget about it unless we had an ice age rather than global warming. I guess I'd take a salt water boat for a lake cruise before doing the same. Fortunately, my 5.0 mpi has Chev cast iron heads on a cast iron block and simply needs to be drained (without being refilled with RV anti-freeze.)

 

[GypsmJim]

I always read my owner's manuals and then keep them for future reference. Forty years ago when Mercruiser was selling cast iron block I/Os their recommendation was to drain the water and fill with anti-freeze. The book said it was for "extra freeze protection" in very cold climates, plus corrosion protection.

Sooooo, nothing new.

 

[Arminius]

I think Mercruiser should spell out the specific steps for freeze protection in bold print as to each engine and each cooling system along with the rationale and need for each. This is a "mission critical" provision of the manual and an inadequate presentation of winterization causes the manual to "fail in its essential purpose." My 2003 manual definitely does not say to refill my 5.0 block with anti-freeze after draining. Our unfortunate fellow Searay owner from Texas seems to have been mislead on the importance of draining and suffered a frozen block as a result.

 

[GypsmJim]

With new cars and boats as possibly the only exceptions, nothing you buy today comes with an owner's manual. Since nobody reads them anyway, the manufacturers save a lot of money by not printing all those copies. Personally, I hate to have to go online to download all that stuff.

Mercury Marine has taken a big step in the right direction. Service guidelines are now printed on a huge sticker right on the engine. Plus, if you point your smartphone toward the big black doober logo it'll display all you need to know right on your tweeter.

As far as draining blocks, I think that Merc's procedures may have changed when they started using multiple blue plastic plugs. Prior to that there were fewer brass plugs, and they were a PITA.

 

[Lazy Daze]

An owner's manual for a boat, much like a car, typically does not go into detail on how to perform a certain maintenance item (although some do tell a little more than others). Instead, there's usually a CYA-thing like "seek professional help". Owner's manuals are purposefully not designed around detailed instruction - for that, one should buy a service manual.

 

[Arminius]

The 120 page 4.5L manual referenced above is titled "Operations Manual, 90-8M0128973." My 250 page or so reference book is "#31 Service Manual." The Good Samaritan Laws were necessitated by the common law principle that if anyone starts a job he has an obligation to finish it in a workmanlike manner, including helpful volunteers. I think this concept requires manufacturers who include "winterization" in their instructions to their consumers to tell them to drain the engines. Consumers are usually held to a relatively low standard of care.

 

[GypsmJim]

An owner's manual for a boat, much like a car, typically does not go into detail on how to perform a certain maintenance item (although some do tell a little more than others). Instead, there's usually a CYA-thing like "seek professional help". Owner's manuals are purposefully not designed around detailed instruction - for that, one should buy a service manual.

I guess we're just talking semantics here. When you buy a brand spanking new boat it comes with a manual printed by the manufacturer of the engine. The book tells you how to change spark plugs, winterize it, change the oil, replace a prop and even how to mount it on the back of the boat. If you want to replace piston rings, rebuild the carb or something other than "routine maintenance", then you need the service manual.

 

[Lazy Daze]

I guess we're just talking semantics here. When you buy a brand spanking new boat it comes with a manual printed by the manufacturer of the engine. The book tells you how to change spark plugs, winterize it, change the oil, replace a prop and even how to mount it on the back of the boat. If you want to replace piston rings, rebuild the carb or something other than "routine maintenance", then you need the service manual.

Oh, you're talking about the installation manual (or whatever they call it, now). Yes, talking about two different things here. It's been so long since I've looked in one of those!

 

[GypsmJim]

manufacturers who include "winterization" in their instructions to their consumers to tell them to drain the engines.

Sometimes engine manufacturer's "manuals" (aka, brochures, booklets, owners guides) refer to "Storage" rather than "winterization", per se.

I have yet to see any manual that did not specifically state to remove the water. I would like to read one like that, though. Interestingly, my "Owner's Manual" for my 1921 Rowboat Motor says to remove the water for winter storage. See, even Ole Evinrude knew what to do.....LOL.

 

[Stee6043]

I'm still trying to figure out the point of this thread.

Are we, or are we not, organizing a protest in front of the Technical Publications department at Mercruiser? Have we been wronged? Mislead all these years? Victimized by big-inboard? Predatory service practices? Are they not marginalizing the less experienced inboard owner? We shouldn't stand for this, guys.

 

[Stee6043]

The 120 page 4.5L manual referenced above is titled "Operations Manual, 90-8M0128973." My 250 page or so reference book is "#31 Service Manual." The Good Samaritan Laws were necessitated by the common law principle that if anyone starts a job he has an obligation to finish it in a workmanlike manner, including helpful volunteers. I think this concept requires manufacturers who include "winterization" in their instructions to their consumers to tell them to drain the engines. Consumers are usually held to a relatively low standard of care.

Have you ever actually googled "Good Samaritan Law"? It's got absolutely nothing, nowhere, nohow, nada, zero, zilch to do with workmanlike "practices" nor does it address obligations to finish something you started. Not even remotely related, not even on the same continent of legal principal.

Those laws were created expressly to protect people (who are not doctors) who in good faith give medical aid/care to others. In Michigan these laws also protect the otherwise kind hearted drug user from being charged with possession should he or she seek medical treatment for an overdose.

I think you should tweak your google searches...

 

[GypsmJim]

I'm still trying to figure out the point of this thread.

Are we, or are we not, organizing a protest in front of the Technical Publications department at Mercruiser? Have we been wronged? Mislead all these years? Victimized by big-inboard? Predatory service practices? Are they not marginalizing the less experienced inboard owner? We shouldn't stand for this, guys.

Funny you asked that question. There is no "point". There isn't even a question. It was merely a comment that we don't need to follow the book. Then, it evolved into a diatribe that none of the books tell the correct things.

In my 60 +- years of playing with boats I have conversed with many mechanics, officianodos and "experts" over the years. Looking back I have to laugh at some of the stoooopid things I've been told. Waaaay too many have ideas that don't comply with the manufacturer.

Since the point has been lost, I think I'll just leave and go drink a beer. I should have known better in the first place....

 

[Arminius]

1. The Mercruiser 4.5 L. manual does not make it clear that draining the engine is the essential maintenance required to prevent expensive damage when the temperature will be below freezing.
2. A consumer relying upon the winterization instructions of Mercruiser could be confused by the simultaneous recommendation that the drained engine be refilled with polypropylene glycol. The additional purpose of that recommendation appears to be to guard against corrosion. The occasion for this instruction may be Mercruiser's introduction of its own blocks and aluminum heads instead of traditional converted automotive engines.
3. Incomplete or misleading winterization instructions could be more harmful than none at all. My reference to Good Samaritan laws was unneeded.

 

[Juliery]

1. The Mercruiser 4.5 L. manual does not make it clear that draining the engine is the essential maintenance required to prevent expensive damage when the temperature will be below freezing.
2. A consumer relying upon the winterization instructions of Mercruiser could be confused by the simultaneous recommendation that the drained engine be refilled with polypropylene glycol. The additional purpose of that recommendation appears to be to guard against corrosion. The occasion for this instruction may be Mercruiser's introduction of its own blocks and aluminum heads instead of traditional converted automotive engines.
3. Incomplete or misleading winterization instructions could be more harmful than none at all. My reference to Good Samaritan laws was unneeded.

There is an obligation on adult boat owners that they not need to be hand-held and baby-sat every step of the way. We all know that water freezes and most know, from grade 9 physics class, that frozen water expands. Hence we winterize in cold climates. Can't do it properly? Pay someone. If even this most basic and essential maintenance procedure evades you, perhaps pick up knitting, instead. Boating is not for you.

 

[Pirate Lady]

Funny you asked that question. There is no "point". There isn't even a question. It was merely a comment that we don't need to follow the book. Then, it evolved into a diatribe that none of the books tell the correct things.

In my 60 +- years of playing with boats I have conversed with many mechanics, officianodos and "experts" over the years. Looking back I have to laugh at some of the stoooopid things I've been told. Waaaay too many have ideas that don't comply with the manufacturer.

Since the point has been lost, I think I'll just leave and go drink a beer. I should have known better in the first place....

Reading this sitting in local bar drinking a beer. Too funny.

 

[Pirate Lady]

Had good intentions to bottom paint paint today, then decided not in mood. Went local bar drinking beer watching westerns, paint Tuesday, life is good!

 

[Lazy Daze]

I generally adhere to the thinking, as noted above, that we need to take responsibility for ourselves and not rely on what some book does or does not tell us. I think most of us would agree on that.

But, just for fun, I looked in an owner's pack of a brand new boat - this one happens to have a 6.2L, but it should be the same for the 4.5L. There are three "owner's manuals"...

-- The boat "specific" manual (this one happend to be a 230SLX). This tells the customer to seek professional help, but does reference the other two manuals.

-- The "sport boat" general info manual. This one tells the owner why they should "winterize" and has a general overview, but does not go into much details. It references the third manual for details.

-- The Mercruiser manual. This one goes into details of the procedures, including draining and filling with AF. This one also CLEARLY states that it's important to drain the water to avoid freeze damage. It is actually quite informative on a number of accounts.

OK... that was a lot of typing for something we all pretty much know already...