Analog to nmea2000 04’ sundancer 6CTA 450 diamond new electronics

Discussion in 'Electronics Q&A' started by STI581, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    Hey guys,

    I am in the process of removing all of my original 2004 raymarine electronics and putting in all new Garmin product, 8616 and 8612 screens, Garmin fantom 54 open array radar and standard horizon radio and Garmin auto pilot. So as I am headed down the path of going to nmea2000, I wanted to know who knows if it’s possible to convert the analog gauges to digital nmea2000 converter if it’s even possible on the Cummins mechanical 6CTA 450 diamond engines. Your help is much appreciated in advance.
     
  2. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    Yes it is possible but it’s not a conversion. It’s a matter of adding the appropriate sensors to the mechanical engines. Many manufacturers have this available and there are threads on the subject on this forum but... tony at SBmar has a full system and I believe it is maretron based.
     
  3. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    Actually i just realized you said 2004. Are you sure you don’t have smart craft? If you do there are tons of threads on here about that.
     
  4. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    Hey Josh! Shouldn’t you be enjoying vacation in the Virgin Islands lol. I don’t have Smartcraft as that started on the 2005 480’s. I’m still mechanical. By the way she’s finally back in the slip and I started the mess of pulling all of the wiring! Not a fun job!
     
  5. NotHerDecision

    NotHerDecision Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 28, 2016
    Houston, Texas
    2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer
    2014 Seadoo 155 LTD
    2105 Seadoo 130 SE
    2013 Mercury Dinghy
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3L
    I’m actually on the plane now heading back to reality! Anyway look at the system Tony designed. Not sure it’s worth all the effort as the mechanical engines are absolutely great. If I did anything it would be to add a water flow sensor but the mechanicals are magically simple and I want to keep it that way.
     
  6. superwa

    superwa Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    214
    Jul 27, 2013
    Rhode Island
    2001 Sea Ray Sundancer 380
    Mercruiser horizon 8.1S
    Some older ones are Smart craft ready and you just need to connect a network at the engines and run the wires. My 01 380 DA is all analog but the engines have the ports to connect the modules and create the network. Just in case you need to doble check
     
  7. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    Safe travels bud. I’m done traveling for a little While. Let’s get together so I can show you her.

    thanks Superwa, have any pictures or spots I need to look for? I was trying to find what raymarine has that analog to digital converter. But I can’t seem to find one for Garmin....
     
  8. superwa

    superwa Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    214
    Jul 27, 2013
    Rhode Island
    2001 Sea Ray Sundancer 380
    Mercruiser horizon 8.1S
    You probably need to look at the engine manufacturer. I.e. for mercruisers it’s the mercruiser vesselview module.
     
  9. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
  10. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Look for posts under my name - I installed two of the Noland converters on my previous boat (400DA). There are some tricks you need to know for programming and temperature measurements. Once they were installed and correctly programmed I never had issues with them.
    Tom
     
    dtfeld likes this.
  11. dtfeld

    dtfeld Water Contrails GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 5, 2016
    Milton, GA
    410 Sundancer
    2001
    Axiom 12 MFD
    Cat 3126 V-Drives
    I’m going down the same road with CAT 3126, all mechanical. It’s not easy, quick, nor cheap.

    Noland makes a great unit, but I choose to go with Chetco Digital. Same idea, very similar in concept, slightly different implementations. Both have a large learning curve, and some trade offs.

    There are a couple steps to doing this.

    1. Are you going to keep you analog gauges on the dash or go all digital? Both unit allow you to connect the units to the analog gauges, and parallel the data onto the NEMA2000 network. Or you can direct connect to the engine sensors, and display directly to digital displays. Deciding on displays is a critical task, as not all displays display all N2K PGNs. Dedicated displays work well, but about 500-$1k per display.

    2 What do you want to measure and display? I want the usual volts, oil pressure, coolant temp and fuel qty...all can be done with either unit. I want to add transmission pressure and temperature and Boost Pressure and EGT. All can be done, but it’s an engineering challenge to find the right sensor, locate it on the engine/transmission and calibrate it correctly. If you want fuel burn , range and time/distace to empty, you will have to add fuel flow meters and on dual engines that means 2 sensors for each engine at about $1k per side.

    3. Can you engineer and develop this yourself? I’d budget $3-4$K to implement this without fuel flow, $5-6k with. If you want someone to integrate it for you double to triple the number.

    I’m have a background in industrial automation, and I’m finding it difficult to get it all up and running, mostly due to lack of time.
     
  12. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    Thanks for your insight dtfeld. Funny you say 3126’s. I work for Cat and sell those engines to the Navy for their 11m RIBS. So I can understand that course. While my course is not much different then yours ;)

    I decided to go with Actisense, they have a pretty nice setup. I am just going to display the current gauges on my Garmin display. I’m the future, if I am bored and have nothing to do, I may take on the additional work and add the EGT, boost and transmission readings. But that will require additional sensors and bringing them on the bus. So for now I have my marching orders and will work on this. I plan to have 3 screens and no more gauges to give it a more modern helm setup. It’s going to be exciting, since I don’t believe I have seen any older boats do this. It will be a challenge I am up for. Already removed all the old raymarine electronics and wiring, so now to get the shopping cart started and my wallet to bleed even more.
     
    dtfeld likes this.
  13. quality time

    quality time Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2007
    Upper Chesapeake Bay
    2003 480DB
    QSM11's
    Can you tell me which Actisense unit you're using? Looking to duplicate my analog generator gauges on to my NMEA network.
     
  14. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    Sure. I’m using the EMU-1, you will require the NGT-1 to program the unit so you have the correct sender information from the engine parameters so it displays properly. Only downside is each EMU-1 allows for 6 gauge connections or 3 if you have starboard and port of the same output....so if you require more, you will need to purchase an additional unit. Hope this helps! :)
     
  15. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    This sounds interesting. Have been wondering about this but was putting it down pretty low on the list of todo's. If you're able to pull the data from existing wiring at the gauges that would be great. Seems doable for what i've read depending on your current guages. As stated above fuel burn and egt boost would require additional sensors but that could come later. Will be tracking your progress so please keep us posted. Did some searching and found this post which further peaked my interest.

    https://seabits.com/monitor-your-engine-with-the-actisense-emu-1/
     
    STI581 likes this.
  16. JM390

    JM390 New Member

    20
    Oct 1, 2019
    2003 Sea Ray 390 Motoryacht
    Cummins 480 CE
    Do you currently have Smart craft setup? If so its pretty easy...... I have done it.
     
  17. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    no sir I don’t. Just the analog gauges. So I’ll be wiring the a rise set from the gauge wiring and taking pictures and reprogramming the unit so it’ll all be displayed on my new screens. It will be a lot of work in progress. But I will make sure to document and take pictures on the journey. Stay tuned :)
     
    JM390 likes this.
  18. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    A little update guys, I was at the IWBS in New Orleans and setup a time to visit with Actisense, as their president was visiting the US from the UK. He is going to monitor my upgrade and work together to get this setup and operating correctly. Then if everyone is onboard and others who are interested that have mechanical engines, he will work out a deal for the forum members. Just received their products and initial unboxing, it looks very well built and the quality is impressive. Looks rugged and heavy duty. Their customer support services are top
    Notch thus far. Really excited to get working on this integration.
     
    Jaws, gmacd81 and dtfeld like this.
  19. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/881525-chetco-digital-sea-gauge-g2.html
    https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine...analog-gauges-nmea2000-albacombi-hands-6.html

    I went down this rabbit hole hard core 2 years ago. I went with the AlbaCombi. I bench tested and wired at work with my desk computer and I was encouraged....but get to the boat with my laptop, I could not get the unit to connect thru Ethernet. I had IT at the office spend time with it, no one could figure it out. When I would get a hold of Spain's support there was a huge language issue.... Emails back and forth.. I would have to translate with Google...it was a Shitshow and at the end here I still am with nothing but tons of hours invested in wiring and troubleshooting and nothing to show for it.

    In the end I couldn't get it to connect to calibrate. This past year I just left it alone and lost interest in the huge effort for what I feel now is little return on investment.... It's cool, it's on your displays but that's about it.

    The two links from HT is Skybolt going down the AlbaCombi path and giving up ...a few people that posted had my problem. Skybolt switched to another. I didn't reread the posts but I know he looked at your choice but don't remember why he didn't chose it.

    I am interested in your progress so please keep posting. If it turns into a plug and play I might reconsider.

    Good luck!
     
  20. STI581

    STI581 New Member

    29
    Aug 21, 2019
    2004 420 DA Hardtop
    Cummins-oil burner
    Thank You. After hearing those issues, I’m glad I went this route. I did hear Viking just purchased approximately 400 pieces of various connections and components from Actisense. So it looks promising in a sense...or maybe I am reading into it too much. But either way. Time will tell.
     

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