Adding a generator – opinions wanted

[Presentation]

Option #1
Kohler 5E
5,000 watt
200 lbs, 28.37†L x 15.21†W x 16.87†H
My big concern is I have heard from others its dang noisy and you need the sound shield.

Option #2
Westerbeke 5.0L BCG
5,000 watt
307 lbs, 25.2†L x 15.4†W x 16.9†H
I don’t understand why its 50% heavier then the Kohler model.

Option #3
Westerbeke BPMG
3,000 watt,
165 lbs, 24.6†L x 13.6†W x 14.5†H .
This is the lowest cost option.

My concern is does it have enough power at 3,000 watts? Do builders not put these in because the 3,000 watt marine generators are relatively new? My A/C is 10,000 BTU. I don’t see running the water heater on the generator. I can see us running the A/C + on occasion the microwave + stove + minor D/C items like some lights. Most of the time when on the hook it would be A/C (or heat) plus the inverter (battery charger left on) plus some lights. This unit is least expensive and lowest weight and I will have the easiest time installing it.

This would be going into our 2003 280 Sundancer.

 

[gerryb]

If you go with the 3000 watt unit, you probably won't be able to use EVERYTHING at once. - that's not a problem for us, eg. we never use the HWH... However, we do use electrical appliances in addition to the AC so we need to consider the draw of a blender or panini grill. We also use the microwave a bit and the stove a few times a year. I think I could sequence the draw from the various sources so that we didn't hit the 3000 watt cap if that's what we had as a limiting factor. I like the idea of saving some omoney on the lower rated unit but only if it didn't interfere with what I wanted to do on the boat.

Do a search as someone listed the draws for the various electrical apparatus on the boat. I think the total came in at over 3000 watts. You'll have then envision how you would use your applainces and electrical equip and see if it fits.

Others will chime in about resale value, which probably supports the factory installed model as preferred.

 

[boatmailster]

3000 W on 110V is a little less than 30A

A/C compresor is about 15-20A itself and can jump to about 25-30A when compresor "kicks-in"
another few amps for water circulating pump and that almost a limit of smaller generator
to be shure check sizes of breakers factory installed on electrical panel, that should give you idea about current draw

 

[brimanst]

You may have to do some load shedding with a 3KW genny, but you will probably be happier if you have to install it yourself. I have a friend with a 260 and he can pretty much run his AC and other items with a 2K honda genny, so I think you would be OK. Those low CO models are the way to go.
BTW I have had 2 different boats with a 4.5KW genny. On one I had no problem, the other I had to load shed. It had basically the same equipment so I don't know what the problem was.

 

[Henry Boyd]

We have a 2002 280 and are loking at adding a genset this fall, so I'd like to know how it works out for you. My thoughts based on my work experience and not boating are as follows:

The 3kw model is very enticing, but as was pointed out, will not allow you to run everything a once. More importantly when you do want to run the AC it will be pushing the generator to the max. When new this might not be an issue, but as the machine ages (and the connections), this will make it harder and harder for the generator to supply full power to the AC. That in turn may lead to premature failure of the compressor motor (think 'brown out'). BTW, the heater is actually air flow from the condenser coil, so everything that applies to cool also applies to hot. My conclusion is that this machine while lite and small is not a long term solution.

Kohler is better known in the commercial area than recreational marine, whereas Westerbeke has very establish marine reputation (I have friends with 20 year old sailboats with 20 yo Westerbeke gennies still going strong). Personally, I think we will go with a Westerbeke package.

Hope this helps

Henry

 

[wastinaweigh]

Doug,

I have the 5K Kohler on my 260. I would actually prefer having the 3K generator. It is true, you will be able to run everything with a bigger unit, but the problem is that a generator should run at about a 75% load to get the best life out of the plugs.

To get that with a 5K unit, you have to run the hot water heater and the A/C at the same time. The problem is, the water gets hot in about 15 minutes - then how do you keep it loaded? On a 260 or even a 280, it just is not possible.

The A/C uses about 1500 watts, (might be higher on a 280, though)
water heater 1200
Microwave 800
Battery charger about 750
Fridge 300

A 3K unit would be nicely loaded with the A/C, charger, and fridge running. You would only have to turn off the air compressor to run the microwave or the water heater, and that would only be for a short time.

A 5K unit will run on a light loadmost of the time, leading to fouled plugs.

The problem is that, from sea ray's point of view, customers want to be able to turn on everything and have it all work. So, the install generators that are big enough to do that, and the result is fouled plugs. But hey, that is what sells.

 

[Alex D]

With your boat I would look at the lightest weight and if you are selective, a 3KW will run your suff, though not all at the same time. for a quality and quitness perspective I am a Westerbeke fan

 

[Bottom Line]

I have the Kohler 5E, without a sound shield...and I do not think it is very loud....I realize this is subjective. I have never checked with a meter...

 

[fwebster]

I would strongly consider using the size generator that Sea Ray offered and an option which was a 5 KW. Your boat may be a stepchild when it comes time to sell or trade it if you use a smaller generator. With twin v-8's, the weight shouldn't be an issue.

Balancing loads to match capacity can be a nusiance when your wife or daughter wants to dry her hair, you want to shower for dinner and the A/C kicks on. We never plan on it, but , trust me, there will be times when you or a successive owner will want to power up everything. Also, compressors have a huge starting load....don't under estimate your need.

We see 5X more Kohler threads on CSR that have a fouled plug answer than Westerbekes. Most fouled Westerbeke plugs are on boats where no attempt is made to load up the genset. I see a lot of folks who just start up the generator as soon as they get on the boat and let it run. When load is added, they just flip the A/C breaker and go. Its just as easy to turn on enough breakers to exercise the generator.

Besides, red looks cooler than white in the engine room...........

 

[Asureyez]

Think Resale and not just purchase price or the 100#

Think Resale and not just purchase price or the 100#.

The 3000 watt will require, and from a safety perspective I do not think its optional, for loads to be separated on your panel. This would be done by adding a new master breaker panel or an auxilliary panel. Moving those loads that would run on shore power or Genny separate from those that would run on only shore power. I think it would be a dangerous decision to under power the panel and counting on people's memory to know which items can be sued with what ...

I've seen it done on the existing panel where artful owners re drew the loads, moved the respective breakers and added permenant lables, Then cut the existing BUSS on the back and brouhgt in a separate lead for shore power and Genny through a lock out switch. This is seen alont on retrofits for 12V systems adding inverters.

My recommendation from a resale perspective will be to mimic the factory install as much as possible and go with a sound shielded 5Kw system. If you do you'll not have pay the penalty for a orpahn system no one understands. This way you can avoid a expensive and dangerous rewiring of the main service panels by just adding a Lock Out switch, to prevent a two AC power source, and leave the rest of the wiring status quo.

I've owned a Westerbeke Gas Genny on my 370SD and it ran fine, and was no more thirsty than diesel but it was noisey and I didn't have a Sound Shield. I had a Kohler 8W Diesel on a sailboat and it was much more quiet than the Westerbeke and the Kohler/Yanmar Diesel match up was bullet proof. I now have a Westerbeke 8Kw diesel in a sound shield and its much improved on the noise issue and runs at a constant 1800 RPS by design. 1000 hours and never a hiccup or a oz of oil burned.

Downside for Westerbeke is a limited source of spares supply chain which is limiting and keeps things more expensive.

My 2 cents

 

[Cocktail Time]

For what it's worth, I had a 1991 270 with a 3Kw Onan that was a Sea Ray spec. It would run the 12k btu ac and just about anything else including the water heater. Loud and fouled plugs like a champ.

I currently have a Kohler 5E without sound shield and would like it to be quieter, if you go this route get the sound shield. We sleep in the mid-cabin and it is no more noisy than the AC but it could always be better. These are 3600rpm units.

I would highly recommend looking at the Westerbeke with the safeCO option, they are 1800rpm units and I beleive are 3 cylinder vs. 2 cylinder motors hence the weight difference. I have two CO detectors and usually don't have any problems, but when rafting up somebody is always nervous about the CO from a running genset. That CO elimination system should be mandatory on all gensets INMHO.

Dan

 

[Alex D]

I would highly recommend looking at the Westerbeke with the safeCO option, they are 1800rpm units and I beleive are 3 cylinder vs. 2 cylinder motors hence the weight difference. That CO elimination system should be mandatory on all gensets INMHO.

Dan

I totally agree ... that would be my choice. I love Westerbeke's and their 1800 rpm rated speed. Ours is super smooth and only really noticable in the mid cabin. We have over 100 boats in our marina and 90% are Sea Rays. Most of the dancers and ACs are early to late 90s boats and there has literally not been a WB replaced on any of these vessels in the last ten years.

Dunno why Sea Ray would go to the Kohler units ... probably a price point thing.