Add DC outlets or upgrade to Inverter/Charger

[importmonkey]

Admiral is keen on sleeping out on the hook. We really like turning the generator off overnight (especially when rafted up), but airflow throughout the 44DA is minimal (at best). I put a few USB fans in there which keeps the air moving, but the only power available is AC.

I was going to run some additional 12V DC outlets to the master stateroom, mid-cabin, and maybe in the salon. After some thought and some research, however; would a large inverter/charger be a better investment?

Inverter charger would be more expensive, but would be a big selling feature down the line. Also wouldn't have to move things around (unplug fans from AC-to-USB adapter and into DC-to-USB adapter). It would also allow me to keep the cockpit fridge running, as for some reason they only connected AC power. Not to mention, all the TVs would continue to work, and I don't have to worry about converting them over or running new power for that.

How much work would it be to swap out my current charger and replace it with an inverter/charger?

https://www.amazon.com/ProMariner-0...56948&sr=8-5&keywords=inverter+charger+marine

Only thing I'm worried about is "forgetting" to turn large draws (like the galley fridge and freezer) to battery and/or off as to not deplete my battery bank over night. Would also be nice to not have to fire up the gen set early in the morning just to make a cup of coffee.

Here's my current charger. Would it be as easy as swapping it out?

Thanks!

 

[bobeast]

Inverters are great for occasionally running AC appliances that cannot run on DC. That said, running DC capable items off an inverter is highly inefficient. There are conversion losses anytime you go from DC to AC and back again, or even from 12VDC to 5VDC.

Bottom line is, anything you can run on DC , you should run on DC. Take TVs for example. Many of them come with an AC to 12VDC "brick". You can snip off the brick, and wire directly up to DC, and save yourself some battery power as opposed to running them off of an inverter.

Same thing with fans. Find yourself some 12VDC fans, as opposed to converting 12volts to 5 volts (USB). Such a conversion also has inefficiencies.

Consider upgrading your fridge to an AC / DC model. Another conversion eliminated...

Eliminate as many conversions as you can, and only then consider an inverter to power whatever is left.

 

[dtfeld]

I have been researching this a lot lately. Prices on decent sine wave inverters are getting pretty cheap. That looks a lot like an Aims Inverter https://www.aimscorp.net/12-Volt-Pure-Sine-Inverter-Chargers/, and you can get a 3000W version for a little less than the promariner. The question is how much power do you need and how big a project do you want to make it.

On the low end for me is a small inverter, just enough to run a couple TV's and cell phone chargers, maybe 300-500 watts, running of the current house battery, or even out of a 12 VDC recepticle This is not enough to brew coffee, run the microwave, or the stove. I would not use a transfer switch, and just hardwire the TV's and add an outlet or two where I need it.

In the middle is a larger 1500-3000W inverter with a transfer switch. I would add the coffee pot and microwave to the list of things it powers, but this would be for limited use as the microwave and coffee pot would chew through the existing battery bank. A step up would be to add a 4x6V golf cart battery (and truly the correct way to do it). This will not run the AC's (at least not very long). I estimate the inverter at around $300-$500, and the battery bank would add another $600-$1000 (you could just increase the size of the existing house battery bank).

The Cadillac version would be an inverter/charger with AGS (Auto Generator Start). Some do load sharing so you could run everything all the time. If the load become too large or batteries depleted, the system would start the generator. I personally like the Magnum Energy http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/ The inverter/charger with AGS remote panel is about $2000 and the same battery bank at $600-$1000.

I'm leaning towards the middle option. Xantrex has a 2000W inverter/charger with a decent looking remote panel. The Freedom Xc 2000 True Sine Wave Inverter/Charger is about $600 and a remote is about $100. For the amount of AC power needs, I think this would be plenty. When its time to replace the house battery bank, I'll increase at that time if necessary.

Location is an issue. Some of these units are large and heavy and needs good air flow for cooling, and must be close (roughly 4' or so maybe a little more) to the battery bank.

Almost all of these are high frequency inverters. If you need to do large compressors (refridge AC units) you might want to consider a Low frequency inverter, the surge capacity is much higher and much longer duration. These are more useful in solar power installs.

If you go with a unit with a built in transfer switch, wiring it up is pretty easy. I believe Ttmott did a good write up on how to easily wire into the Sea Ray panel.

 

[NorCal Boater]

The inverter size and type is not really the issue but the battery bank is what will determine your capacity and how long and how much you can run on the inverter.

I had just recently bought my 1989 340da when the Norcold fridge took a poop. Not really wanting to spend $1400+ for a new dual voltage fridge I bought an 110 AC GE that fit the hole. We never anchored out so it usually wasn't an issue but we started taking longer trips so unless we ran the genny during a long cruise stuff in the fridge got warm.

I researched and installed a Xantrex Freedom 1800 and 2 6-volt golf cart batteries. I removed my single house battery and replaced it with the 2 GCs. They charged from the alternator or the battery charger. the Xantrex I used came with a detachable remote and has a built-in transfer switch and a 110v "pass through." Long story short I wired it for the fridge and the outlet for my TV/Blue Ray Player. It worked great but capacity was limited to those 2 items.

On my 52' CPMY I had a 3000 watt inverter with 8, 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. This boat did not have air conditioning. One weekend on a yacht club cruise out with no AC power available, our genny died. We switched to the inverter/battery set up and never ran out of AC power all weekend.

My point is you need to be able to get as much battery in the boat as possible. A 2000w Xantrex will not power a coffee maker for long on a Group 27 Deep Cycle battery. You need something like the golf carts to really give you power reserve. Golf cart batteries are pretty reasonable at Costco but they're heavy and they take up space and because of the weight you need to mount them centerline or split them equally port/starboard.

I hope this helped a little....

 

[Havana Shamrock]

This is our second season with the Inverter installed.
We did the work ourselves.
The equip we used was a xantrex freedom 3012,
4 lifeline 6v golf cart batts
You won’t regret it.

 

[BlueYonder]

You will need a properly sized battery bank. The cables in the photo connecting your charger to the batteries are not nearly large enough. The distance to the batteries and back could require very large cables. If you want AC circuits that can be powered by generator or shore power in addition to the inverter, you will need a manual lockout switch or an inverter with an automatic switch. It is vital to ensure that that there can never be more than one source of AC power to the AC circuits.

 

[importmonkey]

great feedback. thank you.

so, i guess what you're saying is... with my battery bank (i have three [corrected, two] to port and two to starboard, 27-XHD [corrected 31]), i would not be able to provide enough power to cover my cockpit fridge (over night), a coffee maker in the morning, some tv use (3hrs), and a few 5v fans (over night)? i would definitely leave the air conditioning, water heater, et cetera to when we run the genset.

alternatively, i'd need to create an entirely discrete system consisting of a larger battery bank and inverter/charger.

so, i won't be able to simply swap out my intelipower marine converter charger with a smart, autoswitching, 2-3kW inverter/charger.

 

[importmonkey]

sounds like i'll be running some 12v DC power to some outlets for the USB fans and to new DC TVs when i replace them...along with hooking up the cockpit fridge to DC at some point.

 

[Jaybeaux]

importmonkey, that 3rd battery on your port side is the dedicated generator battery. Personally, I wouldn't tie it into a "house bank". If you ever deplete your Port & Starboard starting batteries, you can still start your genny. Just my $0.02.

Jaybeaux

 

[importmonkey]

importmonkey, that 3rd battery on your port side is the dedicated generator battery. Personally, I wouldn't tie it into a "house bank". If you ever deplete your Port & Starboard starting batteries, you can still start your genny. Just my $0.02.

Jaybeaux

damn. ya know...i had this conversation with my dock neighbor while we were at anchor. i would have bet money they were all tied together. not sure why, as it makes complete sense why they would be separated - but i could have swore they were all wired in parallel.

nope.

also said they were 27. they are 31.

 

[Jaybeaux]

My PO must have changed out all of the batteries somewhere along the way as all of mine are Group 27. My Port batteries are Deep Cycle (575 CCA) and the Starboard batteries are Cranking (840 CCA). I haven't explored it deeper, but it leads me to believe that the "house" batteries are on Port Side. Just a guess on my part. If you or anyone else can shed any light on this, it would be appreciated.

My Generator battery is also a Deep Cycle (575 CCA).

If I start the Port engine on just the Port batteries, it just doesn't have that "punch". My custom has become to "tie the bank together" via the Emergency Start Switch. It gives a greater punch to the starter, but I know that it can mask a problem of a battery going bad. My goal is to replace batteries over the winter/early spring. I'm not looking forward to lugging those things out of the bilge and dropping in new ones.

In September 2017, I checked all of the chemistry in my batteries (they are wet cells), added a watering system, and load tested all batteries. The Specific Gravity (SG) of the electrolyte was fairly consistent across the batteries at 1275 or better on a hydrometer. The "resting" voltages are 12.65-12.85 volts, and the voltages at load are 11.3-11.4 volts. Not perfect, but I think they are good for a bit more. I plan on re-doing all of the above checks here in the coming weeks. I'm just waiting for a 100 Deg F day with 90% humidity to spend a few hours in the bilge!

Jaybeaux

 

[Havana Shamrock]

I’m not sure if the initial cost of the upgrade will aid in selling the boat later. We had a good idea of the cost only because we copied a friends install on his 480 DB and plan on keeping this boat for a few more years.
It’s definitely not an inexpensive upgrade but I will agree there’s nothing like hanging on the hook all day and night in pure quietness.
If you have any questions pm me.