A different take on $4 gas...

Can't say that I'd really want companies run for the benefit of anyone other than shareholders, after all, the greatest productive force is human selfishness
 
Can't say that I'd really want companies run for the benefit of anyone other than shareholders, after all, the greatest productive force is human selfishness

Thus sub-prime mortgages sliced and diced as AAA+ securities.

Enlightened self interest is one thing, but this "Mine, mine mine, mine, ALL MINE" attitude with no thought to any future consequences beyond the next quarter's P/L statement is a problem. It's no longer in the companies interest to increase next quarter's profits at any cost when the decision is being driven by a guy who is looking for a big bonus check, but doesn't care about how their actions affect the future stability of the organization.

Human selfishness is also the greatest destructive force. Balance in all things.
 
I think there is more state tax on gas than we all realize. I filled my car in TN. on Sat. for $3.09 per gal. I filled up again in Indiana at $3.99 per gal. That is .90 per gal difference for the same brand and octane. I watched as I drove back and each time I crossed a state line the price would increase and my the time I would get to the middle of the state it would be the highest until I crossed the next state line. Go figure! is it the oil companies or the state taxes? Bob
 
Of course, and there will be cycles too where things go wrong, but capitalism is bringing so many billions of people out of poverty.....

Anyway, nobody is forced to use gas, electricity or anything else for that matter. Sure, life would get awful difficult, but that is the trade off. We want high standards of living, we need capitalism and market forces to coordinate all the individual efforts to make it tick.

We had a situation over here ... Two(?) years ago where an airline shut their own workers out over a pay claim, got all the news services flustered along with the left/liberal types. The airline had made something like a $500m profit the year before, too greedy they all said. But this company had something like $15b tied up in assets. Should these companies be aiming to break even? Should we regulate an acceptable level of profit? No one would take any more risks and we'd not have shale gas or anything else keeping us on the water. It would be even more hideously expensive.
 
I think there is more state tax on gas than we all realize. I filled my car in TN. on Sat. for $3.09 per gal. I filled up again in Indiana at $3.99 per gal. That is .90 per gal difference for the same brand and octane. I watched as I drove back and each time I crossed a state line the price would increase and my the time I would get to the middle of the state it would be the highest until I crossed the next state line. Go figure! is it the oil companies or the state taxes? Bob

Indiana is $.18/gallon, TN is $.20/gallon. http://www.indianagasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

The facts are available for anyone who cares to look for them, rather than supposing/projecting.

Pump prices are set by the local station. They are based on a large variety of factors, including local economic conditions, contract prices they set 6 months earlier, and what they think they can get away with. Also, it is quite likely that the gas in TN and IN either (1) don't come from the same refineries, allowing for pricing differences or (2) come from the same refineries and have to be shipped further to IN, boosting the price.

One station could be owned by a larger franchisee allowing him to better control his contracts/costs, or the other might be run by a guy who just isn't any good at that. There are so many variables in the "why does this cost $X here and $Y there" equation that I'm sure dissertations have been written about it.

Frankly, I'm just tired of watching the same political war drums being banged over an issue so badly. Let's get back to SERIOUS conspiracy theories, like Roswell. Or the faked moon landings. Something with some substance, at least.
 
I try not to think about the price of gas.
But, when it starts to hurt, I smile because that means I'm using my boat and skis alot.
 
I think there is more state tax on gas than we all realize. I filled my car in TN. on Sat. for $3.09 per gal. I filled up again in Indiana at $3.99 per gal. That is .90 per gal difference for the same brand and octane. I watched as I drove back and each time I crossed a state line the price would increase and my the time I would get to the middle of the state it would be the highest until I crossed the next state line. Go figure! is it the oil companies or the state taxes? Bob

It is not the same gas and a part of the refinery shell game. Much of Indiana is in the Chicago region and mandated to use more expensively formulated gasoline to combat Chicago smog, this is likely a big art of it. When this went into effect Indiana prices rose permanently. This also is the culprit of spot shortages as you can only get gas from refineries supplying your mandated gas.

MM
 
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Guys, I think I have it figured out...The prices are so high because it cost so much to truck it to the gas stations, Diesel is at $4.10/Gallon right now and the big fuel haulers aren't electric don't cha' know. :)

LK
 
I agree with Scott in the fact that the price of diesel in particular affects the price of everything in the U.S. Everything has a diesel tie.

I do not believe it is strictly supply and demand here in the USA. Speculators have more of an influence on the price than the economics. Add in taxes which is about 1/4 or more of the price at the pump. Federal, State, County and municipal taxes. Add them up.

No new refineries in the USA has an effect, although we are now exporting fuel and gasoline to other countries, but they don't have all the EPA regulations tied to it. Even when North Dakota wanted to build a new refinery on state land it was shut down by the feds. The Feds and Congress are scared with what is happening in the Dakotas and want to shut it down.

One last thing. Back in 1977 when oil started flowing in the great Alaskan pipeline from the north slope oil fields, Alaska supplied 25% of this nation's oil. Back then Alaskan oil was mandated to be sent to west coast and gulf refineries. It could not be sold overseas for 20 years. Then in 1997, Alaskan crude started being sold overseas with only a fraction going to USA refineries. This needs to change. We need to drill and produce more Alaskan fields and send it to USA refineries.
 
What if those fields cost more to exploit than the US consumer is willing to pay?
 
I find it frustrating that we are becoming a net exporter of fuel yet keep retail prices so high. Proves that local supply/demand causing price to stay inflated is BS.
http://www.amazon.com/Camco-40206-T...007&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=Camco+water+fresher

what you do see is that shale oil is expensive to extract so in order to continue to drill for shale we need to see barrel prices so high, so there's no push to reduce barrel cost. In fact barerel cost stays quite flat and we then become a net exporter, meanwhile I'm paying $5.89 a gallon at the marina because two refineries decided to do some maintenance... WTF... between speculators and corporate profit gouging I don't know what's worse....
 
China is laughing all the way to the Bank. Our Govt is to stupid to realize it or it's their goal to ruin the U.S. Our resources need to stay on U.S. soil. China is now exploiting Iraq oil and did not spend a dime there during the war. The U.S. should have been reimbursed in oil for the tax dollars we spent there to free them. We even paid for the water we pumped out of the river there to purify for drinking water and what we did not use got dumped back in the river and we paid for that also. Spending was way out of control and those who served there saw it all.
 
Guys, I think I have it figured out...The prices are so high because it cost so much to truck it to the gas stations, Diesel is at $4.10/Gallon right now and the big fuel haulers aren't electric don't cha' know. :)

LK

diesel is cheaper to produce isnt it? why would it be cost more per gallon?
 
diesel is cheaper to produce isnt it? why would it be cost more per gallon?

It use to be cheaper but I'm not sure about the new low sulfer stuff. It's a shell game at best on the pricing but the extortion of taxes is added on to the cost by all states. No road fuel tax should be charged for any boat gas or diesel, Mike.
 
I agree with Scott in the fact that the price of diesel in particular affects the price of everything in the U.S. Everything has a diesel tie.

I do not believe it is strictly supply and demand here in the USA. Speculators have more of an influence on the price than the economics. Add in taxes which is about 1/4 or more of the price at the pump. Federal, State, County and municipal taxes. Add them up.

No new refineries in the USA has an effect, although we are now exporting fuel and gasoline to other countries, but they don't have all the EPA regulations tied to it. Even when North Dakota wanted to build a new refinery on state land it was shut down by the feds. The Feds and Congress are scared with what is happening in the Dakotas and want to shut it down.

One last thing. Back in 1977 when oil started flowing in the great Alaskan pipeline from the north slope oil fields, Alaska supplied 25% of this nation's oil. Back then Alaskan oil was mandated to be sent to west coast and gulf refineries. It could not be sold overseas for 20 years. Then in 1997, Alaskan crude started being sold overseas with only a fraction going to USA refineries. This needs to change. We need to drill and produce more Alaskan fields and send it to USA refineries.
The Energy Information Agency records on Alaskan oil say this, “Export of crude oil transported in the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System was banned until 1996. Between 1996 and 2004, a total of about 95.49 million barrels of crude oil, equal to 2.7% of Alaskan production during that period, was exported to foreign countries. As of March 2012, no Alaskan oil has been exported since 2004.” http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=35&t=6

30 years ago there were twice the operating refineries as now. New ones aren’t built because it’s a huge investment w/poor return as compared to updating existing facilities. Here’s a Reuters article from last week about 3 new ND refineries. The second to last paragraph sums it up…“It is far from clear whether all these projects will raise sufficient funding to turn their plans into reality.” http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/28/column-kemp-bakken-refineries-idUSL5N0E93PL20130528
 
Gas prices in metro Omaha are b*t sh*t crazy right now. Prices dropped like rock after Christmas, almost below $3.00. Was hoping for a great summer! Then, skyrocketed to about $4.04 for the week before Memorial day. (At least we still observe some traditions in this country!). Now, dropping like rock again. Paid $3.55 last night, same station is $3.53 this morning.

Our local rag blamed the January price thaw on a metro wide 5 county / two state wide gas war. That is sort of hard to believe, or it implies there is not enough competition if everything is tied so tightly. And why, in 48 years living here, has that happened exactly once?

The price spike was blamed on multiple mid-west refining plants being down for maintenance, and changing blends. Apparently the plants are back up now? Wouldn't a policy of not killing all plants the same month make sense? Bottom line, gas was always available, and demand didn't sway much, we all just took our beating at the pump.

We lack coherent energy policy in this country, and let financial speculators and oil companies mess with the system instead of encouraging an even flow of supply and price. And our roller coaster economy suffers for it, causing people to take caution instead of moving forward with business plans.
 
Gas prices in metro Omaha are b*t sh*t crazy right now. Prices dropped like rock after Christmas, almost below $3.00. Was hoping for a great summer! Then, skyrocketed to about $4.04 for the week before Memorial day. (At least we still observe some traditions in this country!). Now, dropping like rock again. Paid $3.55 last night, same station is $3.53 this morning.

Our local rag blamed the January price thaw on a metro wide 5 county / two state wide gas war. That is sort of hard to believe, or it implies there is not enough competition if everything is tied so tightly. And why, in 48 years living here, has that happened exactly once?

The price spike was blamed on multiple mid-west refining plants being down for maintenance, and changing blends. Apparently the plants are back up now? Wouldn't a policy of not killing all plants the same month make sense? Bottom line, gas was always available, and demand didn't sway much, we all just took our beating at the pump.

We lack coherent energy policy in this country, and let financial speculators and oil companies mess with the system instead of encouraging an even flow of supply and price. And our roller coaster economy suffers for it, causing people to take caution instead of moving forward with business plans.

100% correct!
 
They only get 10 gallons of diesel per barrel of oil, compared to 19 gallons of gasoline. Keep that in mind when considering the economics of diesel.
 

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