8.1 Phosphoric acid / Barnacle Buster rinse

Discussion in 'Gas Engines/Drives/Transmissions/Props' started by SeadawgVB, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. SeadawgVB

    SeadawgVB Member

    111
    Jul 8, 2013
    Tidewater Virginia
    '03 Sundancer 360
    Twin 8.1s with V-drives
    So I've read a few posts here and on a couple of other forums about rinsing the raw water side of the engines / genny / A/C with a diluted Phosphoric acid solution. I want to do this on all my raw water systems.

    Air conditioner seems easiest (and for sure required for mine as the flow is very low and I discovered barnacles inside my strainer).

    Generator seems a little more difficult due to access, but the complexity is not to much.

    The engines seem more complex as I was hoping to circulate the solution throughout the entire cooling system (heat exchanger, trans cooler, oil cooler, cool fuel) and wanted to circulate it in the reverse direction.

    Here's the question: How do I connect the supply and return line of my home built "port o flush" without flooding the solution into the exhaust manifold?

    My thought was to connect the supply line to the hose supplying cooling to the exhaust manifold (the one on the bottom (no water rails), disconnect from the manifold) and plug off the opposite manifold. Connect the return to the hose that is normally connected to the output of the raw water pump. Water (or Phosphoric acid) inside the cylinders would be bad.
     
  2. Alegria

    Alegria Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Lancaster,PA Boat: -Sue Creek, MD
    2000 410 DA
    3126 CAT
    I am planning on doing this to my mains shortly. I was planning on using my sea flush and a 5 gal bucket to suck it in. From my searches it seems like this solution is OK with the impeller and shaft seals. I was going to feed it in and let it sit 4 hrs and run the engines as normal to flush it out.

    I believe if you are going to circulate it through the system you have to crimp off the cooling water feed to the shaft seals or it will leak out the seals over time. You might want to consider the sit and soak method.

    Interesting to see how others have tried to do this.
     
  3. SeadawgVB

    SeadawgVB Member

    111
    Jul 8, 2013
    Tidewater Virginia
    '03 Sundancer 360
    Twin 8.1s with V-drives
    I forgot about the shaft seals, I have heard about that in other posts. That's why I asked this question here... It may actually be easier to do the Sea Flush, getting to the water pump hoses could be difficult.

    I'm hope others who have tried / succeeded will throw in their two cents as well
     
  4. juggernaut1

    juggernaut1 Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    688
    Apr 19, 2015
    Perth, Western Australia
    2006 38 Sundancer
    8.1S / ZF 63V Drives
    Haven't tried it yet but am about to....my thoughts for an 8.1 (please note I was going to flush in the normal direction of flow using Rydlyme)

    1. Find suitable size bucket/tub and drop in 360gph or 500gph bilge pump.
    2. Remove inlet hoses from trans coolers.
    3. Plumb a single hose from bilge pump to vicinity of trans coolers and plump to a t-fitting.
    4. Plum the outlet sides of the t-fitting to the inlet of each of the trans coolers.
    5. Remove ex manifold hoses from the heat exchanger on each motor and plumb return hoses to each of the outlets of the heat exchangers.
    6. Plump heat exchanger return hoses of each motor to a t-fitting.
    7. Plump the remaining t-fitting outlet from each motor with the return hoses and route back to to the bucket.
    8. Fill with desired solution and circulate in accordance with instructions of the flush solution.

    Removing the ex-manifolds from the circulation at step 5 will bypass the problem of the returning the flush solution from the ex-manifolds and will also therefore bypass the shaft seal circulation with feeds from the ex-manifolds. So neither your ex-manifolds nor your shaft seals will be circulated with the flush solution.

    Thoughts or potential issues?
     
  5. cfd95

    cfd95 Member

    264
    Nov 5, 2013
    Northport Long Island
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Horizons
    V Drives
    I bought the sea flush kit with the long snorkel hose.
    http://www.seaflush.com

    Mixed the barnacle buster in a 5 gallon bucket closed the seacock.
    Inserted sea flush into strainer with hose going into bucket.
    started engine till bucket almost empty shut down
    let sit for a few hours and flushed with fresh water from hose in strainer with engine running.
    I've watched the videos with the electric pump method and how it shows all the crap coming out.
    But its recycling the barnacle buster mixture with no filter so it's pumping the crap back into the system.
    I also use this to winterize engines and gen too.
     
    Alegria likes this.
  6. SeadawgVB

    SeadawgVB Member

    111
    Jul 8, 2013
    Tidewater Virginia
    '03 Sundancer 360
    Twin 8.1s with V-drives
    Is it true there are no zincs in the engine or heat exchanger? Mercathode is the only protection?
     
  7. Alegria

    Alegria Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Lancaster,PA Boat: -Sue Creek, MD
    2000 410 DA
    3126 CAT
    Well tried this last weekend. The seaflush unit worked flawlessly and fit in every location I needed it. I am going to get a clamp and clamp the hose to the bucket as the suction from the pump moves it around.

    I let it soak about 4 hours and flushed. I did not notice much improvement in flow which was disappointing but I expected that. I was hopeful that this would provide a fix. I have not ran the engines under load yet but I think I will gain a few degrees of cooling.

    Overall the procedure was easy and I am planning to re use the seaflush to get antifreeze into the engines and Genny as well as my AC this winter. So not diappointed with the purchase.
     
  8. SeadawgVB

    SeadawgVB Member

    111
    Jul 8, 2013
    Tidewater Virginia
    '03 Sundancer 360
    Twin 8.1s with V-drives
    I did the seaflush (borrowed from a dockmate) route this weekend as well. It did leak a fair amount at the strainer lip and tried the paper towel gasket deal to keep too much from draining into the bilge. I only let it sit for a couple of hours. The proof will be in the pudding as they say. I only noticed a difference in temperature between the port and starboard engines above 3000 RPM.

    I'm thinking if I acquire replacement strainer covers (one of each size) and modify them to fit a 3/4 inch hose (à la Thoroflush) to directly attach to my bucket, I can reduce the amount of spillage.
    Spoken about in this thread: http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/now-that-thoroflush-is-gone.428/
     
  9. johngus

    johngus Member

    244
    Dec 27, 2008
    Amity Harbor,NY
    1988 300 Weekender
    Twin 350 Chevy
    Straight Inboards
    Be careful with the barnacle buster.while it fixed my running hot an older tranny cooler started leaking after it was clean.guess the crud was keeping it sealed.
     
  10. Alegria

    Alegria Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Lancaster,PA Boat: -Sue Creek, MD
    2000 410 DA
    3126 CAT
    Thanks, never thought of that but your right on the crud. I was out this weekend, too nice up here to not be on Saturday, wow no wind and temps in the mid 80's.

    Did not notice any change in running temps in the motors. But I'll keep an eye on the fluids. So after this and an impeller change it looks like the least expensive and least labor options of flush and impeller change did not help, so going to need to open it up over the winter and take a look. I suspect I will need end cap gaskets for my heat exchanger once I take the end caps off...
     
  11. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    I'm thinking of getting the Sea Flush kit to use for winterizing.
    Did you get the optional snorkel?
    What kind/size bucket did you use to satisfy the 7 gallon capacity of the 3126's?
    How did you wind up clamping the intake hose to the bucket to keep it from moving around?
     
  12. Alegria

    Alegria Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Lancaster,PA Boat: -Sue Creek, MD
    2000 410 DA
    3126 CAT
    Hey John!!

    Yep used the snorkel. Used a fresh "paper towel" gasket on each engine. I used a 5 gal bucket, so I did not satisfy the full 7 gal, but I don't think that was the issue with the BB, I think I have crap in there that BB just won't clean out... Or I needed to go longer then 4 hrs.

    For a clamp I used a 6" clamp off amazon that was $4. That held the hose in place.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OSAONII/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A9XQK5UQOQCCY

    I will have to go with two shots of AF to winterize after I drain the raw water system or find a bigger container.
     
  13. marks737

    marks737 Member

    208
    Sep 15, 2009
    NJ
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Mag MPI V-Drives
    Hi. I also have a 2002 310 Sundancer and am thinking about winterizing myself this year. Was wondering what your procedure was. Did you have room to put the sea flush unit on all strainers including the AC strainer? Did you drain the mufflers? Did you use an external fuel tank with the oil mixture to fog the injectors or the fuel filter method? Also, have you used the flush connections to flush motors, I've never tried. I'm wondering if you can use the flush connection to winterize through.

    Mark
     
  14. Sublimetime

    Sublimetime Member

    387
    Oct 22, 2007
    clifton nj
    420 da
    454
    This is a very cheap alternative to the sea flush setup, only for perko two bolt capped strainers as found on most searays. Follow close I am not the best at explaining but here goes: at H.D. in the galvanize pipe section you locate
    a 2" floor flange.(this is a flange that allows you to bolt a pipe end to a wall or floor.)

    a bushing for the 2" flange to reduce it down to whatever size hose you choose to use. I used a 1 1/4" hose 4 feet long to reach from top of strainer to bottom of five gallon bucket placed next to strainer, you may need longer hose.

    a nipple to screw into the reducing bushing to slip hose over and clamp.

    a thin sheet of closed cell foam to cut a gasket for sealing to top of strainer, nothing fancy- just a shape like a donut and place on top of strainer before tightening down the floor flange to the top of strainer.

    you might have to drill out two holes in flange then it will bolt down to the top of strainer.

    close seacock and place hose in bucket of water or antifreeze. You can prime hose if you like but will work without.
     
    SeadawgVB likes this.
  15. cfd95

    cfd95 Member

    264
    Nov 5, 2013
    Northport Long Island
    2002 310 Sundancer
    350 Horizons
    V Drives
    The engines and generator i do with the sea flush .
    The AC i use a drill pump to pump the antifreeze from the discharge fitting up front till i see antifreeze coming out of the intake strainer.
    I only use the strainer to winterize with the sea flush with the snorkel with 5 gallons of antifreeze while running the motors.
    I have V drives so i want to make sure its coming out of the shaft seals and any water in exhaust system is out
    I dont drain the mufflers
    I put a fuel treatment in both tanks like startron before i take the last ride for haul out and run the gen also.
    Thats the only thing i do to my fuel.
    Once on land i run engines and gen with a hose in the strainer to flush and warm up to change oil in all. then winterize with antifreeze.
    The water system i run all faucets till tank is empty.
    Drain and bypass the hot water heater.
    Remove the suction line from the freshwater pump put it in a 5 gallon bucket of antifreeze turn on pump then open all water sources and the vacuflush till anti freeze comes out.
    And don't forget the shower sump box i open it shop vac water out of it ,clean it and pour antifreeze in it making sure it pumps at least a gallon over board.

    I have never used the flush connection on the motors.
     
  16. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Thanks! I'm going to order the Sea Flush and try to find a bucket or container that will hold 8-10 gallons and fit between the motors.
     
  17. KevinC

    KevinC Active Member

    814
    Feb 25, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    2004 340 Sundancer
    1988 Proline Center Console - 90hp Mariner/Mercury
    1969 Boston Whaler
    Twin 8.1 V-drives
    I have the seaflush and used it for winterizing. The funnel worked well but was a little underwhelmed by the snorkel. It basically a drilled out pvc cap with a tube glued in place. It did do its job, especially with priming the AC pump but it my case was awkward to get the height, fill the tube and keep it in the funnel. Tube probably could be a little longer for me.

    I would buy it again though but I think putting some permanent fittings inline would be a better solution - but far from as simple as this. Plus you can use this with a dockmates boat.

    -Kevin
     
  18. Alegria

    Alegria Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Lancaster,PA Boat: -Sue Creek, MD
    2000 410 DA
    3126 CAT
    John

    The answer might be under our sink in the galley.. Rubbermaid trash can. I think it's 7 gal. They make a 10 gal one. Looks narrow enough to fit. Just wonder if the tube is long enough to reach which I suspect it is....
     
  19. belliswood

    belliswood Member SILVER Sponsor

    281
    Nov 21, 2011
    Colonial Beach, VA
    1996 370 SUNDANCER
    NAME: DAWG HAUS 3
    7.4 EFI 454
    V-DRIVES
    I have used the Sea Flush system to winterize my engines, Gen and Ac's for 6 years now with no issues. I used it to with the Barnacle Buster on my Generator. The Barnacle Buster says to let it sit 12-14 hours then run it to flush it out. I let it sit for 12 hours with no issue to the Impeller. The Zink did need changed after as it ate most of it away. Before using the Barnacle Buster my gen would run for a short time and then over heat and shut down. Had water coming thru exhaust but not a lot. After using the Barnacle Buster I have ran the gen non stop for 10 with all the systems running in the boat. No issues and lots of water being pumped out the exhaust. This stuff works amazing. Next will be the Ac units.

    BArry
     
  20. SeadawgVB

    SeadawgVB Member

    111
    Jul 8, 2013
    Tidewater Virginia
    '03 Sundancer 360
    Twin 8.1s with V-drives
    Results of the Phosphoric acid flush:
    I took a trip on the boat this weekend. Friday I ran two hours in a rolling sea with a conflicting chop on top of it and had to keep the RPMs down. The heat of the engines (according to Smartcraft) never got up to my standard top end; 174 degrees.

    But on the way home yesterday it was a different story. Still had the rollers coming in off of the ocean, but the chop from the northerly wind coming down the Chesapeake was non-existent, so I was able to run the engines at the standard cruising RPM of 3200 for two hours straight.

    Both engines had identical temperature readings of 167 degrees and never wavered 1 degree, even with the starboard water pressure being two psi less than port (which has been the norm since purchasing in April.)

    It would seem as if the acid flush has made a difference in this case. Nothing else was done to my power plant and the water temps were very similar on each occasion.

    I may try to cobble something together similar to what Sublimetime outlined above using a pipe flange. I'm just wanting the least amount of leakage / spillage of the phosphoric acid.

    I guess it's time to show the Genny a little love now.......
     

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