58 Sedan Bridge Official Thread

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Skip, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    456
    Apr 6, 2021
    Annapolis
    2006 58DB
    MAN 900 CRM

    I made a little progress yesterday. First, our Parts Manual suggests the original bridge stereo was a Clarion CMD4... and what's there now is a CMD8... hence my suspicion the original was replaced sometime over the years.

    Our main amp is a JL Audio M800/8v2 (also probably not original) and there's also a JL M600/1 subwoofer amp (ditto). Former is 8-channels in/8-channels out (four L/R pairs each) stereo, and latter is mono with two paralleled sub outs.

    All that leads to another suspicion: the replacement installer paid no attention to existing speaker wire connections, ran a whole new set... for some obscure reason. That would explain all the rat's nest of extra wiring I found, though. And given these are replacements, some of this might not be useful for everyone (anyone) else...

    The CMD8 provides two sets of speaker output: one front L/R, and one combo rear/sub L/R. This is not Dolby, so it appears the "rear" speakers are just that, same signal as front speakers but maybe separately controllable if the follow-on amp and speaker system supports that. Given the boat's speaker set-up, I see no advantage to connecting the "rear" output to the main amp... so I only ran that combo rear/sub L/R out directly to the sub amp.

    The M800 speaker (output) set-up I inherited is:
    - 1/2 (L/R) is bridged to the (dead) transom speakers which are daisy-chained into a single load
    - 3/4 (L/R) feeds all four bridge overhead speakers
    - 5/6 (L/R) feeds cockpit overhead speakers
    - 7/8 (L/R) feeds bow speakers

    The M600 sub (output) set-up I inherited is:
    - one pair to bridge sub (which currently appears to be dead, need to test further)
    - one pair to cockpit sub

    The Remote Level Control can be made to mute all channels, channels 5-8. or channels 7-8. I don't see a way yet to hear music on the bridge and nowhere else. OTOH, using the RCL to control only channels 5-8, I've at least figured out how to mute the cockpit overhead and bow speakers... and since the transom speakers are currently dead, we're at least able to function on the bridge without blasting the whole marina with crappola. (And I'm still puzzled by who thought transom speakers would be a good idea.)

    The RCL can also be made to mute the subs, BUT only both subs at the same time. IOW, if the sub on the bridge is live, so is the sub in the cockpit... which is back to that "blast the marina" issue. I disconnected the sub in the cockpit, pending some sort of solution to separately muting the two subs.

    I haven't yet bothered to experiment with filters, crossover freqs, etc.

    -Chris
     
  2. missnmountains

    missnmountains Active Member

    512
    Dec 12, 2007
    Florida
    2008 58 Sedan Bridge
    900 Man
    Speaking of Stereos, ours is the CMD5 with two Clarion CMRC1BSS Watertight Wired Remote w-Display. The one in the cockpit has cracks where the rubber buttons are. Does anyone have a source for the remote? I have searched for hours, and cannot find it as it has been discontinued. From what I have read, the next gen is not compatible with the CMD5.

    Ken
     
  3. All's Well

    All's Well Well-Known Member

    Jan 14, 2010
    Houston
    '12 58 Sundancer
    900 MAN
    Since the DA & Sedan hulls are the same I thought that I'd throw out a concern that can be easily mitigated -
    A while back I had a fresh water hose bust to the side of the generator. This hose directed full flow of water to the rear of the bilge - right above the stern thruster. The stern thruster sits in a low pocket that does not drain. The water in my case filled the cavity where the stern thruster sits and submerged the stern thruster motor & ruined it. Since installing a new thruster motor, I also added a small bilge pump to this area to evacuate any water that may find this area in the future. This small addition could save you a thruster motor in the unlikely event it gets water flow from somewhere.
     
  4. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    996
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2008 58 DB
    MAN CRM 900
    Yes I have wondered why there isn't one there or why its not connected to the main bilge even a few inches up.
     
  5. carterchapman

    carterchapman Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 25, 2008
    Lake Chickamauga/Marietta, GA/Ft. Myers, FL
    2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
    MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
    When my steering ram had an O ring failure, the hydraulic fluid filled that area. I wonder if that's why there was no bilge pump there...like the cavities under the engine that are designed to keep oil from reaching a bilge pump...
     
  6. missnmountains

    missnmountains Active Member

    512
    Dec 12, 2007
    Florida
    2008 58 Sedan Bridge
    900 Man
    Ours has holes. When our ram failed, the fluid went straight to the bilge pumps at the bottom of the ladder. I don’t think it could ever hold much water or oil.

    Ken
     
  7. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    A friend continues to have issues with his main battery banks - he is getting ready to install the third set in less than two years. They are boiling out.
    I say it is his OEM charger which is a single bank charger that splits through an isolator to charge both banks and that he needs to move to a multi-bank charger without the isolator, but he says it is one of the equalizers. Has anyone seen a failure in an equalizer take out a battery bank?

    Maybe he needs to dedicate the 24 volt banks to engines and other 24 volt things and set up a separate 12 volt bank for the house and navigation and get rid of the equalizers altogether plus set up modern chargers?? Or go to a DC to DC converter?
    His boat is a 2005 58
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  8. missnmountains

    missnmountains Active Member

    512
    Dec 12, 2007
    Florida
    2008 58 Sedan Bridge
    900 Man
    That is exactly what happened to me. I had replaced the batteries twice before I figured out it was the equalizers. The problem with the equalizers is there is only one green light. No fault lights. When my problem first started, One light was on and one light was off on the other equalizer. My KVH would fail with a low voltage error. I would turn off the batteries at night, and they would recover a some for the next day. Eventually both lights would not light. I talked with Vanner, and they told me that the lights do not illuminate unless there is a voltage difference between the two batteries. Well in reading the manual, that is only .1 volts.

    Another symptom was one battery was fat and the other was sunk in.

    I purchased two 65-60's from Robert's & Son $533.82 each on July 31, 2020. The lights are always on and the system has been working flawlessly since then.

    Ken
     
  9. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Thanks - that is what he is doing plus moving over to a multi-bank charger and eliminating the isolator. I probably would have gotten rid of those expensive equalizers and installed DC to DC converters like this Victron IP67 24/12-100 which is $250 - https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-ip67-24-12-dc-dc-converters
     
  10. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    456
    Apr 6, 2021
    Annapolis
    2006 58DB
    MAN 900 CRM
    BRIDGE AIR CONDITIONER

    Ummmm... more difficult than expected. Our original was a Cruisair 24K BTU unit. The replacement we just had installed is a Dometic DCU 27K BTU unit, same dimensions as the original.

    We had to remove the whole underside of the helm, which means first removing the decorative bolster... and then unscrewing the underside from the main upper piece. Cut the calk line, lift (grunt!) the main upper part of the helm, get the underside piece out...

    And then they also had to temporarily get behind the MFDs on the dash to get to the duct hoses for the forward-facing air vents.

    All in all, not great. Not horrible, but more work than I'd (they'd) expected.

    I haven't replaced the bolster yet. It's fastened on by "christmas tree screws" and while most seemed to (barely) survive dismounting, a couple broke... and we had some unsightly bulges/curves in the bolster anyway... so I guess this is an "opportunity" to fix something else sooner than I'd expected.

    At least the new unit has a stainless drip pan, an improvement over the previous.

    -Chris
     
  11. carterchapman

    carterchapman Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 25, 2008
    Lake Chickamauga/Marietta, GA/Ft. Myers, FL
    2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
    MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
    Chris - I was just under there replacing the triac. It looks like it would come out without removing everything - except to access the hoses.
     
  12. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    456
    Apr 6, 2021
    Annapolis
    2006 58DB
    MAN 900 CRM
    Nope. At least I don't think so. Seems like the unit itself won't fit through the small opening, and that's all complicated by having to get behind it to disconnect/reconnect the ducting and the plenum before/after removal/replacement.

    Even with the underside of the helm station removed, they had to do some significant juggling to reach things (with a loooooonnnng extension on their drill/driver) and to move the unit out from under/back under the whole mess of helm station wiring coming through there.

    Given our original was just now 15 years old, maybe not too many owners have done this replacement yet?

    -Chris
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
  13. Charlesoceanone

    Charlesoceanone Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    425
    Dec 14, 2014
    Harbor Shores Marina, St Joseph, Michigan
    2013 58 Sedan Bridge
    2021 Walker Bay LTE 11
    Man 900
    Does anyone know the factory brand installed freezer on the 2013 58? Here’s what is on mine and just doesn’t get quite frozen enough. 6F9E2A3D-AF96-493F-987F-B654370D6314.jpeg
     
  14. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    456
    Apr 6, 2021
    Annapolis
    2006 58DB
    MAN 900 CRM
    The Parts Manual for your year (get from the Sea Ray site) may give you some into... but the build sheet (also from Sea Ray) will give you both model and serial number for lots of installed components, probably including the freezer. A third pointer is that it might have been the same brand as your fridge.

    The build sheet was about the only way I could easily get the serial number for our freezer -- Sub-Zero 249 (249FFI,actually) -- because there's no manufacturer's info plate on the inside. And I needed the serial number to order a replacement icemaker...

    -Chris
     
    Charlesoceanone likes this.
  15. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    996
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2008 58 DB
    MAN CRM 900
    I believe in 2013 that was the factory brand. We looked at 58DB and 610DA s from that vintage and I know all the 610DA's had Perlick. I am pretty sure the 13 58DB we looked at did as well.

    The 08/09s have Sub-Zero for both fridge and freezer in galley.
     
    Charlesoceanone likes this.
  16. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    996
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2008 58 DB
    MAN CRM 900
    I forgot to add that these higher end fridge freezer units are easily repaired. It's one advantage of the cheaper units that aren't easily repaired. We just had our fridge repaired, it would not stay cool all the time.
     
    Charlesoceanone likes this.
  17. Charlesoceanone

    Charlesoceanone Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    425
    Dec 14, 2014
    Harbor Shores Marina, St Joseph, Michigan
    2013 58 Sedan Bridge
    2021 Walker Bay LTE 11
    Man 900
    Thanks just trying to figure out the age of this unit. I didn’t get any info on this
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
  18. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    456
    Apr 6, 2021
    Annapolis
    2006 58DB
    MAN 900 CRM
    MAN V8-900 CRM (D 2848 LE 423) OIL CHANGES

    The 2005 MAN manual for V8-900 CRMs specifies lube oil standard M 3277. The manual only lists two approved engine oils for the U.S. Market: Mobil Delvac 1 SHC (SAE 5w-40, newest API CF) and Mobil Delvac XHP Extra (SAE 10w40, newest API CI-4). If unapproved oils must be used, MAN says they should meet API CF-4, CG-4, CH-4, or CI-4. When we had our engines brought back into compliance with MAN’s recommended service regime, Gulf Coast Diesel used Mobil Delvac 1 ESP (SAE 5w-40, newest -- current -- API CK-4).

    I’ve not seen the first two available on the market, but at least Mobil cites their Delvac ESP meets the MAN 3277 specification. OTOH, I was only finding this in 1-gallon bottles; Tractor Supply at one time carried 2.5-gallon jugs, but apparently none have been available recently.

    Seemed odd to me so few lube oils would be appropriate, so I went searching a bit. First, Performance Diesel sent me a newer 2015 doc which adds MAN’s 3377 spec for our engines… but that doc doesn’t actually list any actual products. That document cites a MAN URL for additional engine oil info, but it’s a dead link. Then I found a 2009 MAN memo online that lists lube oils that meet their 3277 standard. LOTS to choose from, including the Delvacs. (See attached.)

    The Shell Rimula brand is what’s generally sold here as Rotella. Rimula M6 M (SAE 10w-40) is what’s sold here as Rotella T6 (SAE 5w-40, API CK-4). Rotella T6 5w-40 cites compliance with MAN 3575, no mention of 3277 or 3377. (I don’t know whether some of MAN’s specs are backwards-inclusive or not. 3575 may include 3377 and 3277, but I haven’t found a citation for that. The 2015 doc does not mention 3575.)

    Anyway, a couple weeks ago Tractor Supply did indeed have Rotella T6 5w-40 in stock in 2.5-gallon jugs.

    On a related note: I just spoke with our new-to-be MAN guy up here on the Chesapeake… and he verbally recommended oil changes for “typical pleasure boaters” every 250 hours… NOT the 400 hours (or 1 year, whichever comes first?) specified in the MAN manual. He said he had some offshore charter customers that change every 150 hours, but that’s harder usage than what we’d routinely see.

    -Chris
     

    Attached Files:

  19. carterchapman

    carterchapman Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 25, 2008
    Lake Chickamauga/Marietta, GA/Ft. Myers, FL
    2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
    MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
    I got the 2.5 gal size Delvac at Tractor Supply last fall...I haven't checked this year yet...
     
  20. carterchapman

    carterchapman Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 25, 2008
    Lake Chickamauga/Marietta, GA/Ft. Myers, FL
    2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
    MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
    Robert Serviss likes this.

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