58 Sedan Bridge Official Thread

@ttmott

Woof! Hadn't known you were working on all that! Impressive!

My intentions are more modest: inverter for 120VAC loads, so that's just fridge, freezer, TV/stereo, microwave, AC outlets (which includes coffee maker).

A different direction: I just compared sizes of Odyssey PC1800-FT batteries versus typical 8Ds. Looks like 4x PC1800-FTs will perhaps fit in the footprint of an 8D box, although they're taller. Replacing our 2x thruster batteries with 4x PC1800-FTs would increase nominal capacity from ~245-ish to 428 Ah @ 24V, would add ~216 lbs to that side of the boat, and would cost approx. $2700-ish. And then the thruster bank could service the inverter function.

(Does depend on whether Odyssey still makes these!)

OTOH, half of that cost could be thought of as the cost of a thruster bank anyway, so not all of the cost would necessarily be charged to an inverter project.

It'd likely be better to replace the current 25A charger for faster re-charging at anchor (within the limits of what AGMs handle), and in that case a combined inverter/charger might be better... than a separate charger and inverter.

I have some experience with this approach. In the previous boat, I first increased bank capacity for our two main banks from ~270 Ah to 300 Ah, and they shared a charger. Later, I increased one bank to 440 Ah, and then dedicated an inverter/charger to that bank to service light AC loads. (Everything above except for fridge/freezer, which were already AC/DC.) The batteries were still in the engine room, but the inverter/charger was (above) nearby, in storage behind living spaces. Worked pretty well, didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Obvious cons, in our current situation: 1) The batteries are in a hot engine room. (Although that's where they are already, anyway.) 2) Locating an inverter in a hot engine room, close enough to the batteries, ain't great. (Don't know of an alternative, so far.)

-Chris
 
You might want to consider the Victron Quatro rather than the Multiplus - The Quatro will automatically switch between shore power, generator, or batteries with priority to shore power then generator then batteries. It's a nice unit.

Ah. Yep, indeed. Hadn't looked closely, didn't realize the MultiPlus doesn't have an automatic transfer switch. Thanks!

-Chris
 
Ah. Yep, indeed. Hadn't looked closely, didn't realize the MultiPlus doesn't have an automatic transfer switch. Thanks!

-Chris
The multiplus does have an ATS but only switches one AC power source and batteries. With the Quatro you can add an automatic generator start and seamlessly transition between shore power to generator power to batteries then when the batteries need to charge the generator automatically comes on line and charges the batteries then shuts back down and you are back on batteries. When shore power is reconnected the system automatically configures to shore power and charge mode. All managed by the Quatro and GX control system.
This is a typical arrangement in the big blue water yachts....
 
How will you put a meter on the fridge and freezer? I'm not familiar with how those work... install between the unit and it's AC outlet? Or...?

I will probably use a Kill-A-Watt style device, it measures energy usage over a period of time.

I'll pick a relatively hot long weekend or week trip and get an good average, using two devices, one for fridge, one for freezer. Then can use them on anything else we would likely use. For $30ish it's a pretty useful tool.
 
I will probably use a Kill-A-Watt style device, it measures energy usage over a period of time.

I'll pick a relatively hot long weekend or week trip and get an good average, using two devices, one for fridge, one for freezer. Then can use them on anything else we would likely use. For $30ish it's a pretty useful tool.
Scott - so using that meter, you have to get behind the refrig/freezer to the plug, right?
 
Let us know what the loads are, please. Then we don't have to do the work!!! LOL!!
I like the whole inverter discussion, but I’m scratching my head about what the problem is with just running the generator? Even with the inverter discussion, the biggest question is how to provide cool and flowing air to the MSR with non-opening windows, hatches, or other fresh, cool air sources.
 
I like the whole inverter discussion, but I’m scratching my head about what the problem is with just running the generator? Even with the inverter discussion, the biggest question is how to provide cool and flowing air to the MSR with non-opening windows, hatches, or other fresh, cool air sources.


In my case, I dislike the noise if at anchor overnight. Not that it's loud, but that it would mask other noises I want to hear and react to.

And I like quiet morning coffee (contemplation time), sometimes quiet Happy Hour hors d'oeuvres...

And I don't really like the idea of leaving the boat at anchor, sightseeing or whatever, with the generator running unattended.

-Chris
 
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I like the whole inverter discussion, but I’m scratching my head about what the problem is with just running the generator? Even with the inverter discussion, the biggest question is how to provide cool and flowing air to the MSR with non-opening windows, hatches, or other fresh, cool air sources.
Jeff - We are in the South and need AC at all times. So we start the genny leaving the dock and shut it down when we get back to shore power...I don't think I need an inverter like some of the guys up North...
 
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Jeff - We ae in the South and need AC at all times. So we start the genny leaving the dock and shut it down when we get back to shore power...I do9't think I need an inverter like some of the guys up North...

I dunno... of course, maybe not "need"... but when we lived in South Florida, we often anchored overnight quite comfortably through Fall/Winter/Spring without wanting the genset running overnight.

-Chris
 
Jeff - We ae in the South and need AC at all times. So we start the genny leaving the dock and shut it down when we get back to shore power...I do9't think I need an inverter like some of the guys up North...
Carter, we keep the 58 here in Michigan so I’m an up north guy. Even with our occasionally cool summer evenings, there’s no way to get fresh outside air in the master stateroom without the AC system. This is probably near the top of a very short list of things I don’t like about the boat.

I’m on your plan - the generator starts before the shore power is unplugged, and shuts off when we plug back in at the dock.
 
Even with our occasionally cool summer evenings, there’s no way to get fresh outside air in the master stateroom without the AC system. This is probably near the top of a very short list of things I don’t like about the boat.

I'd been noticing that, too... Our usual solution to hot summer nights on the previous boat (with at least some air circulation in the master) -- at least July and August here on the Chesapeake, some late May, early Sep -- has mostly been to just not anchor out in those months.

Not a great solution.

I might experiment with a couple small portable fans in the master, on this boat. Not July and August, though.

-Chris
 
A different direction: I just compared sizes of Odyssey PC1800-FT batteries versus typical 8Ds. Looks like 4x PC1800-FTs will perhaps fit in the footprint of an 8D box, although they're taller. Replacing our 2x thruster batteries with 4x PC1800-FTs would increase nominal capacity from ~245-ish to 428 Ah @ 24V, would add ~216 lbs to that side of the boat, and would cost approx. $2700-ish. And then the thruster bank could service the inverter function.

It'd likely be better to replace the current 25A charger for faster re-charging at anchor (within the limits of what AGMs handle), and in that case a combined inverter/charger might be better... than a separate charger and inverter.

Obvious cons, in our current situation: 1) The batteries are in a hot engine room. (Although that's where they are already, anyway.) 2) Locating an inverter in a hot engine room, close enough to the batteries, ain't great. (Don't know of an alternative, so far.)

Looks like this could be a relatively simple solution. Replace the thruster charger with an inverter/charger, the location is relatively close to the panel for AC-side wiring, beef up the thruster bank when it comes time to replace the current 8Ds...

Further analysis hasn't really turned up any more significant difficulties. (Yet.) Locating an inverter/charger in a hot engine room isn't recommended in the installation manuals, but those same companies also say not to put their chargers in hot engine rooms, and the battery manufacturers don't recommended it either. We have 4 battery banks and 3 chargers in a hot engine room (courtesy of Sea Ray), so maybe changing one charger to an inverter/charger isn't such a huge deal.

-Chris
 
I mentioned earlier our Glomex antenna appears to have no 12VDC power. I would normally first suspect a fuse, possibly an automotive-type blade fuse in a fuse block somewhere.

The Parts Manual, Salon (Port View), part #11, says:
11 1781228 MONITOR, CO DETECTOR WHT CMD-4
1782156 PLATE, CO MONITOR BCKNG WHT CMD-4
1647148 FUSE BLOCK, 10-GNG CO MONITOR TV AMP W/LABELS​

The Owners Manual, P7.1, says:

The CO monitors are powered through the fuse block behind the salon DC Distribution Panel.​

I'm interpreting all that to mean I need to open up the AC/DC distribution panel to get to the fuse block that might have a blown TV antenna fuse (and coincidentally has fuses for the CO detectors).

Looking this morning, it looks like the panel is double-hinged. One is at the bottom of the AC portion, which exposes only the AC stuff (I checked that)...

And then there's another hinge further down, at the very bottom of the combined AC/DC panel which appears to me to be the hinge that opens up the whole magilla after removing four release screws, two on each side of the upper portion (didn't check all that).

Before I try that... am I on the right track? If so, how gracefully (or not) does the whole panel open up?

-Chris
 
Carter, we keep the 58 here in Michigan so I’m an up north guy. Even with our occasionally cool summer evenings, there’s no way to get fresh outside air in the master stateroom without the AC system. This is probably near the top of a very short list of things I don’t like about the boat.
I'm across the pond from you (and 500, not a 58) but it could be darn near cold out and there is still no fresh air to the 2 other cabins. At least we could open the forward hatch in the master. With 6 people on board, it gets stuffy FAST, esp my teenaged boys in the bunks. I barely register the genny running even on that quiet morning with a cup of coffee.
 
I mentioned earlier our Glomex antenna appears to have no 12VDC power. I would normally first suspect a fuse, possibly an automotive-type blade fuse in a fuse block somewhere.

The Parts Manual, Salon (Port View), part #11, says:
11 1781228 MONITOR, CO DETECTOR WHT CMD-4
1782156 PLATE, CO MONITOR BCKNG WHT CMD-4
1647148 FUSE BLOCK, 10-GNG CO MONITOR TV AMP W/LABELS​

The Owners Manual, P7.1, says:

The CO monitors are powered through the fuse block behind the salon DC Distribution Panel.​

I'm interpreting all that to mean I need to open up the AC/DC distribution panel to get to the fuse block that might have a blown TV antenna fuse (and coincidentally has fuses for the CO detectors).

Looking this morning, it looks like the panel is double-hinged. One is at the bottom of the AC portion, which exposes only the AC stuff (I checked that)...

And then there's another hinge further down, at the very bottom of the combined AC/DC panel which appears to me to be the hinge that opens up the whole magilla after removing four release screws, two on each side of the upper portion (didn't check all that).

Before I try that... am I on the right track? If so, how gracefully (or not) does the whole panel open up?

-Chris
That's the way the 52 is configured, and the fuses are there. Here is a pic for ya -
IMG_3492.JPG
IMG_3486.JPG
 

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