-50,-60,-100 AF. Cash grab?

Discussion in 'Winterizing' started by Strecker25, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
    we’re in western NY and while not the coldest place around, it gets down there. We hit -6*F for a couple hours the other night and it got me thinking. I’ve always used the -50*F pink AF (drain the block, fill through tstat hose) and never had a problem. How low would it realistically have to be to crack a block properly winterized with the -50?

    Obviously a lot of variables like how much water left in the motor, drained properly, etc, but the -60 and -100 stuff looks to be quite a bit more expensive. Curious if it’s just a way for the big box stores to make a couple more bucks
     
  2. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    I don't even know if it was on CSR, but I've seen a thread where someone compared the various flavors in a range of temps. The take-away was that pink start to "slush" at startlingly-high temps.
     
  3. CliffA

    CliffA Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Dec 29, 2009
    Lake Norman, NC
    2001 Sea Ray 340DA
    Name: 'Happy Place'
    4.5kW West. Generator
    Purchased Nov. 2014
    Fresh Water Use
    Twin Merc. 6.2L (MPI)
    Raw Water Cooled
    V-Drive Transmissions
    just remember air is 'free' and 'never freezes'......:rolleyes:....I never used any anti freeze when I winterized my smaller trailer boats....just bled and blew out the water from the engine block and exhaust and fresh water lines......

    cliff
     
  4. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
    I put a half gallon of the -50 pink in my chest freezer that was at 0*F and it slushed up overnight. Being the dead of winter with nothing else to do maybe I'll see if I can set up some burst tests on various pipe. I think I have some pex laying around I could cap off and fill
     
  5. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
    For sure. We all drain our blocks completely prior to filling with -50 pink, I can't imagine the rage I would have if the filling with AF actually caused a crack
     
  6. Espos4

    Espos4 Active Member

    346
    Jan 1, 2017
    Long Island NY
    2007 240 Sundeck
    350 MAG Bravo 3 W/DTS
    It says so right on the bottle. The pink stuff will begin to slush somewhere around zero. It will not expand though.
     
    Strecker25 likes this.
  7. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
    Just went back to read a spare bottle. Slush point is 17*F, they say pvc burst is -10 and copper burst is -50. I guess that answers my question, I might go with a higher number next year. I checked the weather history from the other day and temps dipped to about -6 from 4-6 AM. A little too close for comfort in my mind.
     
  8. Lazy Daze

    Lazy Daze Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 21, 2009
    PA
    Various
    Various
    You're good to go with the -50. You're nowhere near the burst temp for your engine. Rest peacefully - the baby is fine. As far as PVC goes, do you even have any of that on your boat?
     
  9. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    My boats have seen -30F with no problems.
     
  10. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
    I was actually thinking of the pex for the water lines, but that's a different plastic I believe? Polyethylene? maybe that has different properties than rigid pvc for burst.

    I put 2 bottles in the freezer as an experiment last night. One of the West Marine -50 Engine AF and the other West Marine -50 alcohol based "water system" type. The engine pink is nicely slushed up this morning (not nearly enough to threaten bursting anything) yet the water system bottle remained completely liquid.

    We've been exposed to much colder temps since I've been using the -50 so I'm not too worried for this year, but given the small amount needed to do the water system and all the plastic it passes through I might give a thought to a jug of -100 next year.
     
  11. Lazy Daze

    Lazy Daze Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 21, 2009
    PA
    Various
    Various
    Yes, the PEX (brand name) lines are completely different than PVC - they are (common name) cross-linked polyethylene. Slushing doesn't matter - it's the burst temp that matters. I would assume the two different types of AF WOULD behave differently since they are made of different chemicals. So what you saw in your freezer (although I've never done that!) doesn't surprise me... and honestly, it doesn't really matter since, again, we're comparing two different chemicals.

    You can certainly spend more money on the more expensive AF - and there are certainly worse things to spend your money on - but you'd really be wasting your money. You're good to -50*... you won't see that where you are - or anything even close.
     
  12. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
    good info, thanks Dennis. Just about the only thing to do boat related this time of year up here is worry about things that don't matter ;) At least Boat Show season starts this week, maybe I'll blow some money on something I don't need when we go up to Toronto this weekend
     
  13. Lazy Daze

    Lazy Daze Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 21, 2009
    PA
    Various
    Various
    I know, right! Keeps the little hamster running in his cage wheel, I suppose :)
     
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  14. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    If you'd have used spring water you'd have been OK.:) That was a joke I heard when I was a kid, from back when they used to run water in engines and drain it for the night so it didn't do damage. Next morning they'd heat up water, pour it in, and get on the handcrank, fire it up and away they went. When it got too cold, and roads poor due to snow the car was parked and they were back to cutters and sleighs.
     
  15. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    97 270DA 5k Kohler A/C,
    85 Monaco 197
    7.4 300hp BII,
    260hp Alpha 1
    Just remember, any water that may be left in the system will reduce the protection level below what is indicated on the label. That is why my guys use -100.

    MM
     

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