5.0 MPI Intermittent Continuous beep, no Smartcraft output

[davidh82]

i would remove the drive then try to find somekind of "tool" -to mechanically scrub off the crap inside this waterpassage and then backflush from inside with water as good as you can and look what comes out.

i think you have good chances to fix it at no cost just with your work. i do not think you have a completely rotted / rusted water pickup on a 2010 biat - i think its only dirt in it .

Hey Aerobat, thank you for taking a look at the picture. I agree that it doesn't appear to be completely rotted.

I have a small update. I was able to uneventfully get the outdrive off. Quick inspection of the outdrive looks pretty good.

I also picked up a borescope and got a better picture of what the inlet looked like from the inside. It appears as though the plastic tapered insert has broken in half and is partially blocking the hole. It's not clear if this is due to corrosion or not. I'm going to head back to the boat this evening with a pair of needle-nose pliers to see if I can pull out the pieces. At that point I'll get an idea of how much clean-up is necessary. I've already picked up a new insert as well as the install tool. With a little luck I'll be able to get this fixed for only a few bucks.

 

[skibum]

I'm really glad that you found it, David. This can be a frustrating problem to diagnose. The camera on my phone wasn't working so I had to feel around with my finger, and I could't feel any opening there at all. I shoved an allen wrench through it and wiggled it around. Got me from 1.7 psi to 2.0 psi at around 2000 RPM sitting in the water (as opposed to on the muffs). When it eventually came out, I could see that the hole was a little smaller than the diameter of a pencil. Not enough flow for my 496. ;(

That aftermarket repair looks good, but since the entire hose needs to be replaced, look at the Mercruiser "Design II" water intake hose. Merc part nos. 8M0062102 or 32-43437. Here is a link to the best picture of it that I can find (I can't vouch for the seller, but that price in the link isn't bad - I paid more locally). If you look at the picture of it, Merc has redesigned it so that a pretty strong plastic tube goes all the way through the transom assembly. On the outside, it has a thick rubber bushing that holds the tube in place and seals the hole in the transom plate. I watched a friend install 2 of the old style hoses with those plastic inserts last year, and he had a heck of a time. His problems were mostly being able to get them started, or ending up with them started crooked when he could get them started. I couldn't imagine doing it that way with the tiny bit of available space that I have back there. Installing the new style hose was super easy (but you will need someone outside of the boat to help you out a little - just to make sure that the hose ends up laying in the right place). The install is simple. You put the plastic "tool" (looks like a gasket in shape, but made of 1/4" thick plastic) on the water inlet housing using the 2 bolts supplied. You only put the bolts in 1-2 turns. Then, you put the rubber bushing into the hole in the transom plate, lube the plastic tube, and push it through the rubber bushing into the transom. The plastic tube will go through the hole in the tool, but the bushing will be completely stopped by it. You then tighten the bolts all the way down, which pushes the bushing and tube towards the back of the boat. When the bolts are all the way drawn down, everything will end up in the right place. After you remove the 2 bolts and the tool, you find that the rubber bushing is flush with the edge of the hole, and the plastic tube protruding about 1/4" into where the inlet housing goes. It took me all of 4 minutes to install mine this afternoon (not counting the 5 minutes it took me to chase the threads on the top bolt hole with a (1/4 - 20) tap and a 15/64" ignition wrench). Once installed, it seems to be held very firmly in place. I had my mechanic working with me and this was his first experience with this part. We both agree that it is a good solution. It certainly felt like it was firmly in place when I tugged on it. The rear end of the hose gets the standard tapered insert.

Best of luck to you, my friend!

 

[aerobat77]

great posting skibum , it may help a lot of people with this issue !

btw... a 496 magnum in a 260 sundancer... - thats sounds like a lot of fun !

 

[skibum]

Thanks. To tell you the truth, the #1 reason I like the 496HO in the 260 is that I can get her on plane with no issues regardless of how many people I put on board or how big they are. I putz around on most days at 3400 RPM or so, which is about 28-30 MPH. I still have no idea what her top speed actually is. Every time time I hit WOT, she passes about 45 MPH and is still pulling hard when I throttle her back. The 260 is no speed boat and I'm unsure how safe it is to run her any faster. But to quote AC/DC, "My lady's got balls".

This problem is caused by crud crushing the water line from the outside, so all of that junk is in the hole, not in the hose. I forgot to mention that an important step in the repair is cleaning out the inside of the hole in the transom plate after you remove the old water tube. My mechanic had a long extension with a small, round, wire brush on the end of it in his cordless drill that made short work of removing the crud and corrosion. It would have been a royal PIA to do it by hand. If you do this job yourself, make sure to have some smallish wire brushes and sandpaper on hand before doing the repair if you don't have a tool similar to what my mechanic used. Tools, and unforeseen circumstances were the reasons I opted to pay my mechanic to help me instead of doing the job solo. Having him there for this step alone probably saved me 3 hours of cleaning crud and corrosion by hand.

Speaking of which. David, if you replace the U joint bellows, the water line can be done at the same time. You really don't need to rebuild the whole transom if everything else is in good shape. This should be less than a 4 hour job for any marine mechanic.

 

[davidh82]

Thank you for the great information Skibum!! I was working on the issue a bit yesterday evening. What I found was that the corrosion had broken the plastic insert and the blockage was caused by about a quarter of the insert that had collapsed inwards. I was able to pull this broken piece of the insert out with a pair of needle-nose pliers, and the obstruction is mostly gone now. For a moment or two I considered leaving the hose as-is for the time being, however the insert is broken and I can definitely see a fraction of an inch worth of corrosion around the outside of the hose. I was considering my options until your post, now I have decided to go the same route as you did. Fortunately, BAM Marine's warehouse is about 10 minutes from where I work, so I have quick access to tools and parts. I looked for part 8M0062102, and it looks like that may be just the hose. 32-8M0090859 looks to be the actual hose kit.

I'm feeling very comfortable with completing this fix without the assistance of a marine mechanic. I already have most of the tools I should need and the outdrive is already off. Yesterday I picked up the hinge pin and insert installer tools, as well as the alignment tool.

My bellows appears to be in very good shape, and I don't think it needs to be replaced. When I remove the hinge pins to be able to slide the bellhousing forward, will I need to disconnect the bellows in order to gain access to the water hose? I'm hoping I can leave the bellows alone.

 

[davidh82]

Thanks. To tell you the truth, the #1 reason I like the 496HO in the 260 is that I can get her on plane with no issues regardless of how many people I put on board or how big they are. I putz around on most days at 3400 RPM or so, which is about 28-30 MPH. I still have no idea what her top speed actually is. Every time time I hit WOT, she passes about 45 MPH and is still pulling hard when I throttle her back. The 260 is no speed boat and I'm unsure how safe it is to run her any faster. But to quote AC/DC, "My lady's got balls".

I have to say, for as much as I love our 240, the 5.0 MPI leaves a lot to be desired! For the most part, the 5.0 is all we need. We typically don't have a lot of guests on the boat, so getting on plane isn't much of an issue. However, it would be really nice to know that we could have more than a couple guests and still be able to get on plane in under 30 seconds.

 

[MancaveII]

Unless you know the bellows have been replaced recently and have seriously spread the bellows to look for cracks, replace if while you have the drive off. Consider the gimbal bearing as well...it's worth it given you've got it pulled apart. Now if the maintenance is current and it's been done recently, disregard my comments.

 

[skibum]

I looked for part 8M0062102, and it looks like that may be just the hose. 32-8M0090859 looks to be the actual hose kit.

You are correct. I just looked at my receipt. I bought p/n 32-8M0090859

My bellows appears to be in very good shape, and I don't think it needs to be replaced. When I remove the hinge pins to be able to slide the bellhousing forward, will I need to disconnect the bellows in order to gain access to the water hose? I'm hoping I can leave the bellows alone.

I was going to suggest that, but I wasn't sure it was doable. I thought I saw a youtube of a guy replacing the hose with the bellows still installed, but that was a while ago. Take a box cutter with a new blade and cut the old hose off as close to the transom as you can. You should be able to slice, pry, and pull the rest of it off from the outside. Be sure to clean out the hole really good. PAY ATTENTION TO THE GEAR LUBE HOSE!!! Do not pull too hard on it, or you will snap the little (stupid) plastic barb on the transom plate that it connects to. It is a royal PIA to replace (according to my mechanic). We actually cut the oil line when we took off the bell housing so we didn't break it.

I'm meeting my mechanic at the marina this afternoon to button things up. We're replacing everything. Swivel shaft, shift cable, both bellows, gimbal bearing, senders, water line, and a bunch of small hardware. We used the JR Marine cover plate method to do the swivel shaft. My mechanic really liked it. When I called him to replace the swivel shaft, which he's always done the Merc way with the plugs on the side, he said "Oh... that god forsaken abomination. Its a POS. The guy that designed that SOB should be drawn and quartered.". To which I replied, "So does that mean you'll help me?". LOL. When we got done, I asked him how he's going to do them in the future. He said the cover plate is the only way he's going to do them from now on.

Sounds like we'll BOTH be on the water for the 4th! :smt038

 

[davidh82]

Sounds like we'll BOTH be on the water for the 4th! :smt038

Yes sir! That's what it's all about right? I'm going to be working evenings on this and I have Friday off to work on this as well. I'm going to try without removing the bellows but if worse comes to worse I'll replace.

I honestly could not have diagnosed this problem without you guys and this forum, thank you all for the guidance!

 

[davidh82]

Just ordered the hose kit from this location - http://www.mercruiserparts.com/8m0090859-hose-kit for $51.72

The price is a bit high, but well worth the convenience of being able to pick up the part at the warehouse. No paying for or waiting for shipping, I also like the idea of supporting a local business.

I'll keep you guys posted on the progress, hopefully this will help someone in the future who experiences the same issue.

 

[Lazy Daze]

David - just a suggestion, here... I have not had the need to do this myself, so I can't offer specific advice, but I know it's not all that difficult. But another way to go - which would be advantageous to you since you're now in saltwater, would be to change over to a thru-hull water pickup. There's a "block off" plate that's available to close off the area that you're currently dealing with. Then, it's just a matter of installing a thru-hull pickup (this kind of thing I have done) with seacock, add a nice strainer, and then re-route the inlet hose from your seawater pump to the strainer.

You'll never deal with your current issue ever again. The worst thing that'll happen is you could suck up some small seagrass, but that will get captured in the strainer and you can even remove the grass while you're in the water. You can also flush the engine with fresh water while the boat is still in the water, too.

 

[davidh82]

David - just a suggestion, here... I have not had the need to do this myself, so I can't offer specific advice, but I know it's not all that difficult. But another way to go - which would be advantageous to you since you're now in saltwater, would be to change over to a thru-hull water pickup. There's a "block off" plate that's available to close off the area that you're currently dealing with. Then, it's just a matter of installing a thru-hull pickup (this kind of thing I have done) with seacock, add a nice strainer, and then re-route the inlet hose from your seawater pump to the strainer.

You'll never deal with your current issue ever again. The worst thing that'll happen is you could suck up some small seagrass, but that will get captured in the strainer and you can even remove the grass while you're in the water. You can also flush the engine with fresh water while the boat is still in the water, too.

Hey Dennis,

I've seen the thru-hull solution posted on a couple sites. It does look like a permanent fix, however I don't have the stomach to drill through the bottom of my hull just yet!! This new design of the water hose will hopefully withstand any corrosion at the water inlet. I plan on inspecting the condition of this hose on a yearly basis. If I start to see the hose having issues I'll seriously consider the thru-hull route.

With that being said, since my boat does not have the generator, I do have the perfect place to drill a new thru-hull (where the generator thru-hull would have gone).

 

[Lazy Daze]

I don't have the stomach to drill through the bottom of my hull just yet!! With that being said, since my boat does not have the generator, I do have the perfect place to drill a new thru-hull (where the generator thru-hull would have gone).

Ahh, it's just a wee little hole! There's already a bunch of holes below the waterline, what's one more? Kidding aside, done properly it's perfectly safe. But, I do understand that it can be intimidating if it's not something you've had a lot of experience with. But, my main point was really just to inform you a viable option - not to try and convince you to do it.

Good luck!

 

[davidh82]

Ahh, it's just a wee little hole! There's already a bunch of holes below the waterline, what's one more?

That's true! And if the thru-hull leaks a bit the engine will act as a bilge pump, so I really have nothing to worry about!! Seriously, I really appreciate all of the information and feedback Dennis.

I made a bit of progress today. I only had about an hour to work on this, but I was able to remove the old water intake hose. It was a little tricky with the limited amount of space, however I didn't have to completely remove the bellhousing, which is what I was hoping for.

In order to gain access to the water hose where it entered the housing, I removed the metal ring that holds the bellows in place and detached the bellows from the bellhousing. This gave me the clearance to get a hacksaw to the piece of hose as it entered the housing. With the hacksaw, I was able to cut into the hose and what was left of the plastic insert holding it in place.

Tomorrow my plan is to get the new hose installed and to reinstall the outdrive Thursday evening.

Now, the only thing I need to do is research how to reinstall the silver ring that held the bellows in place (after I purchase a new one as I had to destroy the old one).

 

[davidh82]

Just read through the shop manual, looks like that silver ring is called a sleeve and I need the sleeve installation tool #91-818163 to install it properly.

By the time I'm done with this project I'm going to have quite a collection of mercruiser tools.

 

[Lazy Daze]

That's true! And if the thru-hull leaks a bit the engine will act as a bilge pump, so I really have nothing to worry about!!

Actually, you're more correct than you know! A diverter valve can be installed before the seawater pump, along with another hose that reaches down to the bottom of the bilge. If there's a problem, you would do just as you said - throw the valve to suck water from the bilge, instead of the outside water.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Just read through the shop manual, looks like that silver ring is called a sleeve and I need the sleeve installation tool #91-818163 to install it properly.

By the time I'm done with this project I'm going to have quite a collection of mercruiser tools.

I love buying tools and rarely do I need a reason more than "I could maybe use that someday". But I do have lines in the sand when it comes to some tools. Sometimes I just can't justify it when it would be so rarely used and it's easy enough to take it into the shop. Now, granted, I have access to shop tools and get work done (for those few things I don't do myself) at a discount, but there are some things that I'd rather just write a check for. Probably my most favorite "job" to write a check for is bottom painting! I don't mind tossing on some touch-up paint here and there, but I have zero "want" to do a whole hull. I've done it - and never will again. Happy to pay someone else to do that!

 

[davidh82]

Dennis,

I am the exact same way when it comes to tools. I see purchasing tools as an investment, as it allows me to maintain and complete projects around the house, on the boat, and on our cars. It's amazing how easy having the right tool can make a job.

I also agree that knowing when to pass the job onto someone else is important! The last thing I want to do is compromise the safety or integrity of the boat. However, I also realize that finding a good mechanic is a gamble. At least I know that when this fix is completed, that it was done right and with careful consideration.

 

[davidh82]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give a final update on this issue. After replacing the water inlet hose we took the boat out for the weekend. Right away I could tell that the Water PSI was significantly higher. At about 2000 RPM the PSI was steady at about 10 psi, and at cruising speeds I was getting anywhere from 16 - 17 PSI. We spent all weekend on the boat and put 4 - 5 hours on the engine without any issues.

Thank you to everyone that contributed to this thread. You guys pointed me right to where the issue was and I am extremely grateful! You saved me countless hours of wasted time I otherwise would have spent hunting for this problem.

In case anybody else has this issue down the line, here are a couple lessons learned from my experience:

• Sometimes the sensors are correct! I was seriously considering bypassing the water pressure sensor, this would have been a big mistake! The water inlet obstruction (bravo-itis) was obviously only going to get worse and it was only a matter of time until the engine started to overheat. The pressure sensor did it's job and alerted me to the issue before it caused any damage or left us stranded.
• On the SunDancer 240 with the 5.0 MPI engine, the water inlet hose can be replaced without engine or bellhouse removal, however I did need to disconnect the u-joint bellows from the bellhousing to be able to move the bellhousing out of the way enough to reach the outside of the water hose.
• Don't rush through cleaning the corrosion around the inlet hole in the gimbal housing. I initially gave it a quick brush, and this cost me hours of frustration! I wasn't able to get the new hose and bushing to fit properly and ended up having to take everything out to properly clean the corrosion.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Excellent news, David! I bet it feels good to have this issue behind you. And, thanks for posting the follow up, too!