4x4 Props - Sundancer 260

Discussion in 'Gas Engines/Drives/Transmissions/Props' started by Royal Lichter, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    Hi guys - I am thinking of upgrading to 4x4 props for my Sundancer 260. I'm interested in the Signature series prop sold by Hill Marine. My boat is currently propped with 3x3 20 pitch and I find that it struggles out of the hole.

    The boat will do about 26-27 mph at 4400-4500 RPM's. Hill Marine is suggesting I prop down to 4x4 18 pitch and I just wanted to run that past you guys here.

    Does anyone have any experience with these 4x4 props on their single engine Sea Ray with a Bravo 3? I have a Merc 350 MAG MPI with the Bravo 3 2.20. Thanks so much guys!

    edit: I'd like to add I am replacing my outdrive because of pitting/corrosion/etc and bad seals, there is no doubt water has damaged the internals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  2. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Horrible performance, that's like a 30% slip factor. You've got something else going on there.
    Resolve that 1st.
     
  3. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2007 44DB
    Cummins QSC 8.3s
    I had the same engine and drive in an 06 260DA and would push that speed at 3700 RPMs. I believe my OEM props were 23 or 24 pitch. How many RPMs and speed at WOT?

    Bennett
     
  4. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    Scoflaw, thank you. Good to know. I'd like to add that I am replacing the outdrive... not only is it very poorly corroded and pitted beyond a paint job fixing it, but the seals are bad and I am betting the drive has been damaged due to this. Prior owner...
     
  5. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    I checked with SeaRay and the props that are on the boat are original - 20p. WOT is about 4500ish for me and I max out at about 26-28.
     
  6. paulswagelock

    paulswagelock Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    pa
    2018 SDX 270 OB 300 Verado
    Verado 300
    Something does not add up. You should be spinning that pitch much faster.

    I have used the Hill Marine 4x4 on several boats, a 27' Maxum cruiser with 350mag/B3 being similar to yours.
    OEM prop was 21P 3x3 and I could turn those at 5000 RPM.

    Anyhow, the prop is great for pocket cruisers as it brings the boat on plane quicker and keeps it on plane at lower RPM / Speed. As others have said, find and fix the issues first before your throw $$ at Props. Sounds to me you are either water logged, extremely fouled bottom, or running on 7 cylinders.
     
  7. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    The motor runs great, compression is good and definitely running on all 8. I believe the issues are contained to a failing outdrive. The hull is dry. Bottom paint is good.
     
  8. paulswagelock

    paulswagelock Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2010
    pa
    2018 SDX 270 OB 300 Verado
    Verado 300
    Ok. Get the drive in order, then test current props.
    As stated, I had good success using the 4x4 on a similar boat, and would recommend them and Ron's advice on selection once you have good data.
     
  9. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    Ok, thanks guys... appreciate it!
     
  10. Thornton69

    Thornton69 Active Member

    299
    Sep 15, 2014
    Northern BC
    1980 245 SDC
    1984 18' Valco sled
    5.7 260 Merc/ Bravo 2
    Evanrude 115/80 jet
    Have you considered a Bravo 2 lower? It will bolt right on. If you are replacing the props and lower anyway, you can gain better low speed maneuvering and hole shot. May lose a knot or 2 up top though if that is at all important to you. The B2 lower is pretty much bullet proof IMO and offers props up to 19.5".
     
  11. keokie

    keokie Well-Known Member

    Dec 27, 2006
    Arizona
    2002 310 Sundancer, Westerbeke 4.5 Genset
    496's, Bravo III's, 2.2:1 Gears
    I know folks running those 4x4’s and they have been very pleased with the time to plane, ability to stay on plane at lower speeds, and very smooth operation. I have heard great things about Hill as a company as well.
     
  12. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Your drive issue isn't going to be in your lower, there's only gears in there, it either works or it doesn't. Slipping clutch in the upper maybe. Sure as hell wouldn't replace a B3 with a B2.

    What condition are your props in ?
     
    Thornton69 likes this.
  13. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Yah, somethings not right. Your boat WOT rpm is 5,000 with 20P 3x3 props, top speed low to mid 40's.
     
  14. Lazy Daze

    Lazy Daze Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Apr 21, 2009
    PA
    Various
    Various
    As most as saying above, something is rotten in Denmark. That boat should come out of the hole just fine with your existing setup. Add the use of tabs and it's "almost" too much lift. I also agree that whether or not you have issues with the internals of the drive, that is NOT causing the performance problem.

    Back to basics... are you trimming all the way down on takeoff and trimming up once you get going? That hull doesn't need a lot of up trim to loosen up, but you do need to trim up for speed and efficiency.
     
  15. Thornton69

    Thornton69 Active Member

    299
    Sep 15, 2014
    Northern BC
    1980 245 SDC
    1984 18' Valco sled
    5.7 260 Merc/ Bravo 2
    Evanrude 115/80 jet
    Was just a suggestion to consider. No first hand experience with a B3. Lots of stories out there with corrosion and bearing problems so have stayed away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  16. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    Both good, one was re-done 8 months ago. The other didn't need it.
     
  17. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    I always trim the drive all the way down and leave the trim tabs totally up when I am taking off. Then once I am up to speed and on plane, I trim the drive, and lastly the trim tabs for efficiency and side to side balance.
     
  18. scoflaw

    scoflaw Well-Known Member

    Aug 10, 2011
    cape cod mass
    1999 Powerquest legend 260 sx
    502 mpi Bravo 1
    Your numbers are off the chart bad... Is this a new to you boat, maybe your sog is incorrect
     
  19. Royal Lichter

    Royal Lichter Member

    66
    Jan 22, 2018
    2005 Sea Ray Sundancer 260
    Single MerCruiser Mag 350 MPI w/ Bravo III
    It is a new to me boat. I had a survey done, and the surveyor noted sluggishness, and wasn’t too concerned, but the boat ran much better (really came alive!) after a couple of tanks of gas. Keep in mind this boat is on Lake Michigan so the water isn’t always glass.
     
  20. Lazy Daze

    Lazy Daze Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Apr 21, 2009
    PA
    Various
    Various
    Along the lines of what Scoff said, are you basing the speedo on the tach, or GPS? Speedos get clogged. Use your tabs to get on plane faster. Check fuel rail pressure. Pull the fuel filters out and check them and the container they sit in for fouling. Consider having your injectors cleaned ('bout $20/per). Gotta fix the speed/RPM issues before you do anything with props.
     

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