460 DA Owners Thread

[401Kation]

Getting a bunch of little things accomplished...or at least I feel like I'm accomplishing something.

Replaced the 2 pump system with one 5.3 gpm pump. This required a little re-routing of the incoming water lines into 1, as well as the output line being replaced with a more flexible hose as opposed to the 22 mm stiff PEX pipe.

The accumulator tank was shot, and in a STUPID location, so I removed it from behind the fridge and added it closer to the pump. You'll notice the line coming out of the accumulator now goes to the wash down spigot in the bilge under the battery tray. It originally came off the 22 mm main feed to the boat opposite the holding tank.

Then I added a 12vdc solenoid to allow the water tank to be filled from the rear city water inlet hose. When we are at the docks, we generally connect to city water, so why not allow it to fill/top off the tank when desired. Newer boats are coming out with the same type of system so I figured why not an older boat too. Since I removed the second water pump, the wiring to the switch was already there so I connected the solenoid to pump switch 2. I really like to use the water tank along with the city water to keep the water tank fresh so we use both all summer long and we never have any foul smelling water from the tank. Now, no more climbing over the boat with a hose to fill with water.

Lastly, I added the Camco Tornadoes per a previous discussion on the forum. I took it one step further and plumbed both of them to the rear transom locker where I will be able to connect a hose for flushing rather than dragging it down into the engine room to connect it. Before installing I mocked it up with the 2 tornadoes coming off the same incoming water line and the results were just as good as if it were coming off 1 line. A fun little project, we shall see how well it works. (If it doesn't I can always pull it out and go back to square 1).

View attachment 77872 View attachment 77873 View attachment 77874

I like the idea of adding the solenoid valve so you can fill the water tank. Where did you cut into the dockside system and where was easiest to splice into the tank side? Any pix?

 

[TheWolfTC]

I like the idea of adding the solenoid valve so you can fill the water tank. Where did you cut into the dockside system and where was easiest to splice into the tank side? Any pix?

Hi Doug,
Where you see the solenoid is where I spliced into the dockside water system. If you follow the blue pex line to the stern just below the solenoid, it ties into the incoming water connection. under normal circumstances, the city water connection does not direct water to the water tank, only the water lines to feed all of the sink faucets etc. on the boat. I have added a bypass to that set up.

Once the city water pressurizers the system, the "T" to the solenoid valve is also pressurized. The downstream or output side of the solenoid ties directly into the water line that actually comes from the tank...yes the same line that goes to the intake side of the pump. The intake side of the pump is not pressurized as it is "sucking" the water from the tank. All I am doing is tapping into that line and flowing water down to the tank to fill it. Once the solenoid is turned off, no water flows into the tank. Our boats have 2 water lines from the tanks to feed the 2 pumps. I simply used a couple of elbows and a couple of T's to convert the 2 lines into 1 (to the pump) then spliced into one of those lines from the solenoid. I can get better pics of that connection if you'd like.

It works like a champ and fills the tank rather nicely.
I know some of the techies out there might be thinking....what if you are not connected to city water and you turn on the solenoid? Well, it will cycle the pump continuously as it sees an open loop in the system. It will pump the water into the tank as it is pushing it out to the faucets at the same time...so, don't open the solenoid when you are not connected to city water...LOL

I got all my fittings at www.freshwatersystems.com. They have fast shipping and were great to work with via chat.
15 mm T's, elbows and miscellaneous other items. If you want a complete list I can send you the details.

I got the solenoid at Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2WZ35V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Although a real PIA to get to, the solenoid was going where you see it over the fuel tank port side or at the stern near the blower fan and over the tank. Either way I would have to run a pex line forward on the port side to tap into the water tank line. If you take it on, have someone be there to hand you parts/tools...LOL Once you climb in there over the holding tank and squeezed between the engine and fuel tank, it sucks to get back out because you forgot something.

 

[401Kation]

Anyone else hate having to do the dishes o. board? We don't cook much on the boat, but coffee cups, glasses, silverware, etc start to accumulate in the sink... I saw this today:
Farberware FDW05ASBWHA on Amazon, roughly 17" x 17" dishwasher! I just need to figure out where it will fit.

 

[TheWolfTC]

Is anyone going to the Chicago boat show next month? The Admiral and I are going for a couple days just for the fun of it. IF any CSR members will be there it could be fun to connect.

 

["Lawn Jockey"]

Bill,
I will be at the Chicago show - but only on Thursday. Its the best show wee have around here, so its worth the drive for us. Even Milwaukee is a dud compared to what you see at the Chicago show. Three of us guys will be there, spending Wednesday night there, show Thursday, then home. I went last year as well. If you go on the first days, its nice - elbow room, avoid the crazy folks and the masses. Brian and I also went down to the Fort Lauderdale show las tmonth for the first time...that was an eye opener.

 

[TheWolfTC]

Bill,
I will be at the Chicago show - but only on Thursday. Its the best show wee have around here, so its worth the drive for us. Even Milwaukee is a dud compared to what you see at the Chicago show. Three of us guys will be there, spending Wednesday night there, show Thursday, then home. I went last year as well. If you go on the first days, its nice - elbow room, avoid the crazy folks and the masses. Brian and I also went down to the Fort Lauderdale show las tmonth for the first time...that was an eye opener.

Bummer...We’re going Friday and Saturday. Won’t get to the Windy City until 1 or so. I hear you about the crowds....just couldn’t swing Thursday...helping our son get back to college Thursday.
Have fun as well as a Merry Christmas !

 

[Blueone]

Is anyone going to the Chicago boat show next month? The Admiral and I are going for a couple days just for the fun of it. IF any CSR members will be there it could be fun to connect.

Last time I was at the Chicago Boat show I bought a Bennington Pontoon on a whim.... I have never been back since …..be very careful there

 

[sb in gp]

Great point. You're correct, that is a big challenge. Found Charlevoix, Mac City (by appointment) and Port Sanilac will provide fuel through the end of the month, so that should get us home, with some buffer.

Well it is time to give you guys an update. It is quite an odyssey, but I'll share my whole story, as it may help others.
Closed on the 2017 460DA a little slower than anticipated and with work commitments and winter closing in I hired a captain to bring the boat from Grand Haven to Grosse Pointe (about a 500 mile run around the Mitten). Captain called me after 1 day and said that a low oil pressure alarm started going off. We called Cummins and they said that if the oil pressure still looked good on the gauge, then it was probably a sensor, so we could keep running. 2nd day the alarm became persistent and the captain and I made the decision to pull into nearest harbor and have it looked at. Cummins tech showed up, swapped sensors to rule that out and then removed and cut open the port engine oil filter and found some significant metal fragments in the filter. Oh crap! Cummins said the motor cannot be run and needs to be pulled to determine the source of the issue. To make matters worse, the boat is in Mackinac City, about as far from my home as it can get and temperatures are dropping into freezing range at night. My broker and I decide that instead of trying to drive the boat 300 miles on 1 engine we'll put it on a truck and transport it back. This is no small feat, because the radar arch needs to be cleared and the pods removed to truck it. Broker took care of this and was wise enough to winterize the boat before transporting. This proved to be a critical step, as the trailer broke down on the way and the whole rig sat in a truck stop waiting for parts for 3 days (temps dropped into the 20's at night).

Anyway, long story short, the boat gets back to St. Clair Shores to my broker's shop unscathed, they have the motor pulled by Cummins and they find that several of the bearings are trashed. They eventually found that there was an issue with the factory installation of the oil cooler regulator. Nobody has seen this before, but Cummins is owning the issue and is giving me a brand new motor, which has not yet arrived. The good news is, I expect this to be fully covered, and it happened in the off-season, so I'll not lose any boating time.

Lessons learned:

1. I did a sea trial and had a hull survey, but not a mechanical (because engines had 90 hours on them and I decided that the risk of an issue was so low...). Mechanical survey may have caught this issue before I took ownership, but it may have not. In the future I'll always have both surveys done, regardless of the age of the vessel.

2. Buying from a reputable broker was critical, they have been there through the entire ordeal and they have knowledgeable staff and access to resources that have proven invaluable.

3. I engaged Tony Athens from sbmar.com to be my advisor through the process. Tony is a Cummins guru and was great in helping me understand what was going on within Cummins and how I should proceed.

Happy Holidays everyone.

Scott

 

[sb in gp]

The 460 that we all have was made from 1999-2005. (There was another 460 in the early nineties with CAT power.) The model changed very little over those years with Cummins, CAT or Volvo power and was replaced by the 48 Sundancer. I believe that the "new" 460, the one you describe with the doors, only came out in the past two years. Very nice boat and it gives more inside "salon" living than the previous 460. Yes, the lines are different.... Congratulations on your purchase!

I'm wondering if it makes sense to create a separate thread for the newer 460, since it is a complete redesign from the 1999-2005 models. Thoughts?

 

[TheWolfTC]

Well it is time to give you guys an update. It is quite an odyssey, but I'll share my whole story, as it may help others.
Closed on the 2017 460DA a little slower than anticipated and with work commitments and winter closing in I hired a captain to bring the boat from Grand Haven to Grosse Pointe (about a 500 mile run around the Mitten). Captain called me after 1 day and said that a low oil pressure alarm started going off. We called Cummins and they said that if the oil pressure still looked good on the gauge, then it was probably a sensor, so we could keep running. 2nd day the alarm became persistent and the captain and I made the decision to pull into nearest harbor and have it looked at. Cummins tech showed up, swapped sensors to rule that out and then removed and cut open the port engine oil filter and found some significant metal fragments in the filter. Oh crap! Cummins said the motor cannot be run and needs to be pulled to determine the source of the issue. To make matters worse, the boat is in Mackinac City, about as far from my home as it can get and temperatures are dropping into freezing range at night. My broker and I decide that instead of trying to drive the boat 300 miles on 1 engine we'll put it on a truck and transport it back. This is no small feat, because the radar arch needs to be cleared and the pods removed to truck it. Broker took care of this and was wise enough to winterize the boat before transporting. This proved to be a critical step, as the trailer broke down on the way and the whole rig sat in a truck stop waiting for parts for 3 days (temps dropped into the 20's at night).

Anyway, long story short, the boat gets back to St. Clair Shores to my broker's shop unscathed, they have the motor pulled by Cummins and they find that several of the bearings are trashed. They eventually found that an oil pump was installed incorrectly on the motor at the factory. Nobody has seen this before, but Cummins is owning the issue and is giving me a brand new motor, which has not yet arrived. The good news is, I expect this to be fully covered, and it happened in the off-season, so I'll not lose any boating time.

Lessons learned:

1. I did a sea trial and had a hull survey, but not a mechanical (because engines had 90 hours on them and I decided that the risk of an issue was so low...). Mechanical survey may have caught this issue before I took ownership, but it may have not. In the future I'll always have both surveys done, regardless of the age of the vessel.

2. Buying from a reputable broker was critical, they have been there through the entire ordeal and they have knowledgeable staff and access to resources that have proven invaluable.

3. I engaged Tony Athens from sbmar.com to be my advisor through the process. Tony is a Cummins guru and was great in helping me understand what was going on within Cummins and how I should proceed.

Happy Holidays everyone.

Scott

WHAT a story!!!! And I was thinking fuel stops would be the big issue...LOL

Glad it’s all working out AND in the off season. have a great holiday season!

 

[carterchapman]

What an amazing story! Glad it could be trucked and Cummins owned up to it.

I had a dock mate buy a 2000 Carver 460 Voyager with 1000 hours. He did not do a Cummins survey or oil samples. He closed on a Friday at 4PM - at 6PM, he started it up to move 7 slips down to his slip...stbd engine - clank/clank/clank - tons of black smoke. Trashed engine due to injector failure/piston melt. $35K lesson for him. I LOVE doing $13 CAT SOS oil samples on engines/transmissions/generator - ANNUALLY (and at purchase).

 

[Joint Custody]

Well. I will take a free engine anytime. in my 97 dodge I had 50 miles until the warranty would be up and lost the engine.
dodge and Cummings replace with out a question.
Glad you have it home now and you can start enjoying the process of making it yours.

 

[Jaws]

I'm wondering if it makes sense to create a separate thread for the newer 460, since it is a complete redesign from the 1999-2005 models. Thoughts?

Scott,
Not sure how many of the new pod 460's there are out there, especially on CSR. But it's okay, you can hang out with us....
Sorry to hear about the problems with the "new to you" vessel, but also gratifying to see Cummins step up to the plate.
Good luck.

 

[401Kation]

Has anyone changed the actuator on the vent window? Mine only has a 2" extension and when I disconnect it, the window is capable of opening well past horizontal. Getting an extra few inches would significantly increase air flow. I know other models open further without problems.

 

[45Gunner]

Continuing Saga: Our new to us 2000 460 Sundancer was nearly spotless when we closed on it. It sat at the original dock for 3 days due to weather issues and then a two day trip with some nasty weather to get it home. During the journey home we transited 5 locks. I don't think I have ever seen docking lines so full of muck, which of course dripped over the boat leaving a lovely mess. By the time I got to my dock, I was exhausted and did not have the energy to install the canvas and it rained, increasing the size of the mess. My bride and I spent several days "deep cleaning" the boat. We did such things as take everything out of the galley draws, cleaned the inside of said draws (and cabinets), put new lining into the draws, threw out what we didn't want left by the previous owner, and organized our own "stuff" into those draws and cabinets. I am trying to be organized but at times it seems overwhelming. We have completed our cleaning and organization of the master stateroom, the salon and galley. Next is the aft stateroom and the two heads. My wife's efforts have been mostly concentrated below deck while my efforts have been above deck. The next major project was figuring out how to get my iPod with all my favorite music hooked into the topside stereo system. Eureka! I figured it out and have brought all the outdoor speakers to life. And then there was playing with the dock lines to get them exactly right. The previous owners must have tried every cleaning product known to man since Noah sailed his Ark. Bottles of products with various amounts of fluids of nearly full to legally empty are stashed in every conceivable storage space on deck. When forced to go home at night, the first thing I have been doing is retrieving all the Amazon boxes stacked in my front foyer with boating "stuff" that I have to have. You know what "stuff" I'm talking about. The life ring left on the boat was a mildew mess. Pardon the unintentional pun, but it got tossed. It came in its own box. No flotation cushions on board? OK, I ordered some which came in its own box. No hose at my dock. I ordered two hoses, each in its own box. One 100' hose for washing and rinsing the boat and another 50' hose for filling the water tank. And just like when I had a Class A Motorhome, that hose has to have its own filter. To make a long description short, instead of breaking down the boxes and putting them in recycle, we are using them to offload all the previous owner's stuff. We'll sort out what's useable and what is not. And for once the nasty weather worked in our favor. Since we have been home, the weather has been less than ideal for boating so we don't feel bad working and cleaning instead of being out on the water, the reason we bought the boat in the first place. There are other interests that we are involved in that we find a tremendous amount of fun but then there are times when "cleaning" becomes part of the process. For some, it can be tedious and boring. We take the attitude that it part of the total package and enjoy it. I remember with my previous boats that after work, I could spend hours upon hours waxing and polishing. I called it my "therapy." I don't have to go to work anymore so this becomes my relaxation and therapy. I know you know what I mean.

 

[TheWolfTC]

.......I called it my "therapy." I don't have to go to work anymore so this becomes my relaxation and therapy. I know you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]

I know exactly what you mean...I love washing, polishing and tinkering on our boat..it truly is my therapy...I think I can solve a multitude of the worlds problems while washing my boat on a sunny day...or cleaning down below on any other day. Its my get away...some people say its my OCD, I say its my hobby!

Enjoy the new to you boat and have a safe holiday!

 

[Joint Custody]

.......I called it my "therapy." I don't have to go to work anymore so this becomes my relaxation and therapy. I know you know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean...I love washing, polishing and tinkering on our boat..it truly is my therapy...I think I can solve a multitude of the worlds problems while washing my boat on a sunny day...or cleaning down below on any other day. Its my get away...some people say its my OCD, I say its my hobby!

Enjoy the new to you boat and have a safe holiday![/QUOTE]


Most definitely therapy time for me. Some of my best days on the boat are at the dock just cleaning , organizing and tinkering.

Most definitely OCD however it is good OCD.

just wait until you get to start filling your dock Boxes with all the tools, parts , and all the cleaning stuff you need.

 

[TheWolfTC]

Chicago bat show...The wife and I had fun, walked about 10,000 steps each day (Fri/Sat), saw some cool stuff, spent some money on new toys (not a pontoon boat. ). Friday afternoon and evening traffic was light and it was easier to walk around and chat with vendors. Saturday wasn't bad either, but the weather kept people away I'm guessing.

Ended up at the Chicago Yacht Club for a party from 6-midnight hosted by The Pink Pony from Mackinac Island. That was a good time! We learned about the event while chatting with the Chicago to Mack race booth people.

We physically watched boats get sold...$440,000 sail boat, $650,000 Cruisers, $620,000 Sea Ray, Tiara..it was nuts...we were next in line to get on a Carver yacht and they closed it...the new owner was now on-board and they were signing papers. GREAT to see money being spent.

Next time we can see it all in 1 day of we go Thursday or Friday earlier in the day.

 

[45Gunner]

The Saga Continues: We sat out two weeks of absolutely miserable weather with lots of rain and high winds. On the third week we took a Caribbean Cruise over New Years which is always fun and is probably the best bang for the buck. Got home on a Saturday and on Monday, bright and early, motored the 15 minutes up the ICW to put our new acquisition into a boat yard for fresh bottom paint, prop overhaul, detailing, and to clean up a few survey items the Insurance Company suggested we rectify within 30 days of closing. I was assured from haul out to being put back into the water would be 4 days, 5 at the most. On the tenth day, we were back in the water. In all fairness, the wind averaged in excess of 30 knots most days and activity at the boat yard came to a screeching halt. Finally, launch day was beautiful. My wife and I took our boat for an extended ride with no time schedule, no where we had to be and no time crunch to do it. After a leisurely ride, we put it back at our slip and now will spend the day tomorrow stocking supplies for our first cruise with guests aboard this Sunday. And don't ya know, the wx is forecasted to get crappy again after Sunday. More time to putter around the boat.

 

[All's Well]

The Saga Continues: We sat out two weeks of absolutely miserable weather with lots of rain and high winds. On the third week we took a Caribbean Cruise over New Years which is always fun and is probably the best bang for the buck. Got home on a Saturday and on Monday, bright and early, motored the 15 minutes up the ICW to put our new acquisition into a boat yard for fresh bottom paint, prop overhaul, detailing, and to clean up a few survey items the Insurance Company suggested we rectify within 30 days of closing. I was assured from haul out to being put back into the water would be 4 days, 5 at the most. On the tenth day, we were back in the water. In all fairness, the wind averaged in excess of 30 knots most days and activity at the boat yard came to a screeching halt. Finally, launch day was beautiful. My wife and I took our boat for an extended ride with no time schedule, no where we had to be and no time crunch to do it. After a leisurely ride, we put it back at our slip and now will spend the day tomorrow stocking supplies for our first cruise with guests aboard this Sunday. And don't ya know, the wx is forecasted to get crappy again after Sunday. More time to putter around the boat.

Glad that you got it back home and repairs made