450 DA 1997 Model Year 139,000

Discussion in 'Sea Ray Classifieds' started by endless seas, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. islandhopper00

    islandhopper00 Active Member

    Jan 4, 2007
    Lake Norman (Denver) NC
    240 Sundancer
    5.0L 260hp, BIII outdrive
    To me personally, heck no.
    To a person whom is genuinely considering buying a 50ft boat yep.
     
  2. islandhopper00

    islandhopper00 Active Member

    Jan 4, 2007
    Lake Norman (Denver) NC
    240 Sundancer
    5.0L 260hp, BIII outdrive
    I think Frank understood what I was getting at.

    I wish I could afford this boat, I personally think this is one of a few great deals out there right now. Specially with Franks blessing.
    The reason I know I can't afford a 50ft boat now is, I used to own a 52ft boat at one time....lol
     
  3. sdarc

    sdarc Active Member

    Dec 20, 2010
    Piedmont NC
    Boatless
    Boatless
    You still have a 50ft. boat. Just attach your Sea Ray and Chris Craft nose to tail. :thumbsup:
     
  4. islandhopper00

    islandhopper00 Active Member

    Jan 4, 2007
    Lake Norman (Denver) NC
    240 Sundancer
    5.0L 260hp, BIII outdrive
    Truth in that....
     
  5. Xplicitlnck

    Xplicitlnck New Member

    Jan 2, 2012
    Long island ny
    330ec
    Twin 7.4 straight drive
    First off no offense takin at all.
    Second. Yes a 30k difference is huge (for me atleast) this is because of the financing. Down payment is lower and of coarse depending on the interest rate your monthly payments would be roughly 350$ lower. May not seem like alot but to the middle class blue collared people that sometimes get no work for weeks at a time it matters. Could I afford the extra 350 a month? Probably but don't want to push it.
    I did speak to the owner as well as the broker over the phone even after he told me no to my 100k offer which leads me to this point. If your interested and really looking into buying the boat why not throw a low ball offer. Hell, if he would have said yes I probably would have takin the low trade in value that his broker offered me. That 29 k would have made the difference in the money I lost in the trade in. Also if I offered him 120 and he said yes then that makes me kick myself in the butt saying you maybe could have gotten it for 110. You can always come up from an offer but you can never go down. Now my boats up for sale and if it sells tomorrow I will be driving to him the next day to take a look in person.
    Again is the 29th a deal breaker absolutly not but when the broker is offering you half of what you can sell your boat for that 29k makes up the other half.
    I don't know why anybody wouldn't try to get it a cheap as possible unless you have alot of disposable money.
    Now that being said my boat was up for sale at 60k. I called the owner and said I would give him 30k cash tomorrow he laughed got offended and said no thanks. I said ok what's your next offer he said 58500. I laughed and said sorry no thanks. We went back and forth like that over the next few days and I finally said fine I'll come over to look and give you another offer. Went over looked and said 40 is my final offer. He said 45 and u have a deal. I gave him a deposit and the process began. So if I would have offered him a realistic 50 I would have lost 5 grand. For what, because I was scared to offer him a low ball number? Sorry I don't that much money to just throw 5k away just because I didn't ask.
    Just how I do my negotiating. I don't mean to disrespect people or anything like that is just my way.
     
  6. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    There is a difference in negotiating and bottom feeding. Your approach is bottom feeding and it will usually net you a less favorable outcome than real negotiating. First, it usually makes the seller mad when you offer the low end of the price range when the boat he is selling is probably the cleanest and nicest one on the market. It also gives him the distinct impression that a.) you are not a serious buyer; or b.) you cannot afford the boat/car/horse, etc. The result leaves you seriously disadvantaged when starting the real negotiation.

    Instead, do your homework before even talking to the seller/broker. Try to discover why the boat is for sale and under what conditions. That will give you a clue as to the sellers motivation and if he is desperate to sell. Find out what the recent 450DA sales reported to soldboats.com were. Get an idea of the sold boat's condition by searching their listings and looking at photos. See how long they were on the market and compute the average discount to sales price the net sales price ended up being. I did that on 40-50 ft Sea Rays and it was 7.9% a month ago. Better yet, don't even discuss price until you look at the boat. I sell a lot of equipment and I have learned that it is a serious red flag when the buyer starts negotiating the price in the 2nd or 3rd sentence on the first phone call. A better approach is to go look at the item and convince the seller you are a serious buyer ready to make a purchase before you make an offer. He will give your offer honest and serious consideration rather then laughing and walking away if you do.

    Now, if you will read back over this thread and list all the stuff you could learn about this particular seller and this boat, you could have learned that it is a very nice boat, it is well maintained, it is current on the "wear-out-ables" like carpeting and canvas, the seller is just changing directions and is not desperate to sell, his price history confirms that.....$139K adjusted to $129K in the winter. The seller is professional and savy.

    Under those conditions, do you really think offering 70%of asking $$ for the nicest example on the market of a high demand boat where the comparables are netting 93% of asking price is going to get you the result you want? You will get a much better result if you make a reasonable first offer.




    One final point..........and I have to disclose inside information on this because I have the same boat with the same engines that is well maintained. Another 450 that is local to me was recently purchased for $95K. The owner was proud of his deal until he faced the deferred maintenance list ahead of him:

    Seawater pumps -$1850
    hoses $250
    New shaft seals $1600
    reset valves and injector clearances $1250
    clean heat exchangers and cooling systems $1500
    new accessory belts $250
    clean aftercooler cores $1800
    replace 4 of 5 batteries $950
    Replace canvas $5000
    replace interior carpeting $3500
    replace cockpit vinyl $4000
    remove rudders and repack packing glands $1200
    full detail $2000
    replace generator heat exchanger $750
    replace generator seawater pump $500
    torque head and reset valves $350

    Total - $26,750


    This is why some boats sell low while others, like the one for sale in Maryland, sell for high prices. Another way to look at this is if you can't make the payments on a good boat in great condition, how are you going to afford to cash flow the repairs a cheap boat is going to require. You may be better off buying the nice boat in the first place and amortize the money over the life of your boat loan.
     
  7. Xplicitlnck

    Xplicitlnck New Member

    Jan 2, 2012
    Long island ny
    330ec
    Twin 7.4 straight drive
    While I do agree with you 100 percent in everything you say, I do see differently on one thing. Actually I don't even disagree with you I just have a different situation. The fiancé and I well mostly the fiancé agreed that our next boat purchase wouldn't exceed 100k. Therefore I wasn't driving 6 hours to look at a boat that I couldn't get her to agree to. Now that being said yes I agree with you 100 percent on the fact that this boat needs nothing and it's worth paying on the higher end of the market pricing instead of the down time and cash or off pocket expense to get it to that point.

    This may sound a little off but I didn't really do my research on the condition of the boat mostly because of the person that gave this vessel such a good reputation. And I've heard nothing but great things and how honest this person is and that person is you Mr Webster. So I was pretty confident in that area. Not that I wouldn't do my homework of the deal went further but you put a great deal of confidence in me.
    100 was my limit so I figured why not try. Like I said I did speak to the owner over the phone (very very nice man) and I also spoke to the broker trying to figure out something at full price just didn't happen. I didn't like the numbers. ( after I convinced the fiancé to spend the extra 29k)
    Anyway I did learn alot about buying in your last post Mr Webster so thank you for that.
    On another note are those prices for maintenence just for parts or is that installed by a mechanic? Still trying to get the maintenence pricing down on diesels.
    Thanks again for the schooling. I learn alot reading your posts
     
  8. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Well, I certainly understand your constraints...........

    The maintenance costs I listed are what that owner paid the dealer. Now, I've got the same boat with Cat engines and I know that all that stuff has to be done....at some time. The difference between his costs and mine are really in 2 areas. I do a lot of my own maintenance and if it has nuts and bolts, I'm not afraid of it. He is an accountant and can't hardly get his ball point pen to retract. I am retired; he has a job. All he could do was call the marina and say "I have water in my boat- help!.....I'd have the pump off and torn apart before I left the marina.

    The other huge difference is that his boat was totally neglected and the guy he bought it from did no maintenance. While I have had to do some of those repairs, they were done over my 20 years of ownership and not all at once. And that is THE key point in buying used older diesel boats. It is also why Tommy's boat is probably worth the initial $139K asking price.

    Whatever you end up doing, this is why the cheapest boat in the yachtworld.com list is seldom really the cheapest one.
     
  9. Xplicitlnck

    Xplicitlnck New Member

    Jan 2, 2012
    Long island ny
    330ec
    Twin 7.4 straight drive
    Again thank you for the schooling. I'll be asking more as the year progresses but I dint want to food Tommys paid for ad. Thanks again
     
  10. Xplicitlnck

    Xplicitlnck New Member

    Jan 2, 2012
    Long island ny
    330ec
    Twin 7.4 straight drive
    Flood*
     
  11. islandhopper00

    islandhopper00 Active Member

    Jan 4, 2007
    Lake Norman (Denver) NC
    240 Sundancer
    5.0L 260hp, BIII outdrive
    X, I hope you find a way to buy this boat if it's what your after. I can understand a low ball offer if your genuinely wanting to get to a number you can afford. Never hurts to ask, but it's all about how you ask. If your after bragging rights to say how you screwed the previous owner, not so much. Yes there are alot of jack waggons out there that do just that. I do NOT believe you are one of thoes people.

    Be careful jumping into a big boat. The costs don't just increase as you go bigger, they become exponential. Just keeping up with the washing and waxing will wear you out. It has been said before, the price of buying a boat is the most affordable part of boating.
    Good luck
     
  12. Xplicitlnck

    Xplicitlnck New Member

    Jan 2, 2012
    Long island ny
    330ec
    Twin 7.4 straight drive
    Nope definetly not that guy lol. Me buying this boat all depends on when mine sells. If it sells! . Yea I'm aware of all that money that will be spent and the up keep. Just add it to the list.
     
  13. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Looking at buying another boat is frustrating, educational, and fun all at once.
    One of the most important things that I try to keep in mind is that when dealing with a used boat, as with most things, value is very subjective.
    I'm looking in the same price range as you are, maybe even a bit higher for the right turnkey (does such a thing really exist?) boat. I'm a cash buyer (no loan), and a purchase is not contingent on the sale of my boat.
    Unfortunately this boat is bigger, and a few years older, than what I'm in the market for.
    My needs are a separate shower stall, enclosed master berth, and a generator. I really don't want to go into anything bigger than I need to go in order to get those things.
    My wants are the cleanest and newest boat that fits the bill in my price range.
    Like most people, I'd love to get a bargain, but would be very happy with a fair deal. Especially for the right boat.
    After looking at several boats over this winter, like you, I am very reluctant to travel a great distance out of my way to look at yet another "mint" boat without more background info about it.
    With that being said; If I were looking for a boat of that size/age/general price range, and after considering the positive feedback that has been posted by long time contributors here, I would make the 6 hour trip to see this one.
     
  14. endless seas

    endless seas Member SILVER Sponsor

    904
    Feb 13, 2008
    Baltimore,Maryland
    1997 450 DA
    Cat 420
    Almost 7000 hits.
     
  15. JC3

    JC3 Active Member

    Oct 6, 2006
    Kentucky
    N/A
    N/A
    For the life of me I can not figure out why this boat has not sold. One of the best model boat Sea Ray ever designed, very fuel efficient, 2 staterooms, 2 separate heads and a classic look/lines that help make Sea Ray what it is. The price is very competitive for what it truly is. This boat looks like it was meticulously maintained, what more would a potential buyer be looking for? Just my thoughts but, if someone is looking to move up you would be wise to at least take a look at this boat! JC
     
  16. endless seas

    endless seas Member SILVER Sponsor

    904
    Feb 13, 2008
    Baltimore,Maryland
    1997 450 DA
    Cat 420
    I fired both engines and the genny up today.All started in about 1.5 seconds ahhhhhh the sound of power (-:
    Also since we are taking everything off the boat we turned on the heat and the water temps are 43 and we had almost 85 degree heat coming out of the vents ( my wife was happy).I was happy she was helping.You don't know how hard it was not to untie her and head out for a cruise.
     
  17. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Can't believe that this one is still out there. If it were a little smaller, and more in line with my budget, I'd be all over it.
     
  18. endless seas

    endless seas Member SILVER Sponsor

    904
    Feb 13, 2008
    Baltimore,Maryland
    1997 450 DA
    Cat 420
    Our 450 sold today to a nice family who will take good care of her.I want to thank the members on this site for 9 years of help and advice while sharing the wonderful experience of owning one of the best boats on the water.
    That said I will continue to monitor the site mostly every day to see If I can be of assistance as many have done for me.
    Many Many Thanks,
    Endless Seas

    ps. I also will be watching Frank Webster's comments as I've mentioned before ( how does he do it )? Maybe his last name tells the story. Isn't Webster a version of the dictionary?

    Tommy
     
  19. Xplicitlnck

    Xplicitlnck New Member

    Jan 2, 2012
    Long island ny
    330ec
    Twin 7.4 straight drive
    :smt038
     
  20. JC3

    JC3 Active Member

    Oct 6, 2006
    Kentucky
    N/A
    N/A
    Tommy, Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hate to see a fellow 450 family member leave but I wish you and yours the very best! JC
     

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