420da/44 Sundancer Minuses

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Water U Lookin' At, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. Water U Lookin' At

    Water U Lookin' At Member

    71
    Jan 2, 2007
    Washington, DC
    300 Sundancer 2002
    5.0 MPI, Bravo III Drives
    All,

    I'm starting to look at these 2 boats for a friend. Any thing in particular to look out for in terms of major drawbacks? I already know that he should get diesels, bow thruster, smartcraft, hardtop. Just want to know what I should expect before the surveyor gets involved. Thanks much!

    Eddie
     
  2. Hampton

    Hampton Air Defense Dept TECHNICAL Contributor

    Nov 26, 2006
    Panama City, Fl
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSC-500's
    Straight Drives
    What years?
     
  3. ImpulseIII

    ImpulseIII Active Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    Jersey Shore/Venice FL
    2001 410 Sundancer
    Caterpillar 3126TA
    Make sure it is the right color and the antenna' are not swept back.
    Cost is always a major drawback.

    Eddie, not to be a smart A** but the things you noted are pretty cosmetic. You really need to drill deeper into the boat (not literally) to get a good sense of its past upkeep and maintenance schedule. If your friend just wants to know if the boat is "clean" before he engages a surveyor, fine, but if he is looking for some amount of detail on the boats systems, better to have a person with larger boat experience (OK start the big vs little boat battle again) do the initial look-see.

    Just my $.02
     
  4. Skip

    Skip Active Member

    Oct 5, 2006
    Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
    07 52 DB
    Truly Blessed III
    R6800 CRM MANs
    Thundering Towers of Teutonic Torque
    2010 Nautica 12' RIB,
    MAN R6800 CRMs
    A bow thruster is not necessary. You have, in a diesel 420/44, (same boat, btw) approximately 1300 Ft Lbs of torque per shaft turning 22" x 26" four bladed nibral wheels. The boat goes precisely where you point it, quickly. I would prefer a hardtop, but my boat is canvas. The downside is on a new boat purchase the hardtop is a fairly expensive option--you can re-canvas several times for the cost of the hardtop. The 420/44 with Cummins power is a great boat. I've put 300 hours on mine in two seasons and have found very little that I would change. My "must haves": Glendinning Synchronizer, Raymarine autopilot, oil exchange system, and though I am in the minority here, I like the SR Navigator. My .02


    regards
    Skip
     
  5. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Skip is right on the money (very good Grasshopper!) A bow thruster and hardtop add about $75K to the cost of a new boat and add very little value in terms of enhanced useability. That cost stays in used boat pricing. Look for a boat like Skip's if you want a screaming value in a used diesel boat.
     
  6. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
    You mention in your first post "smartcraft". I don't know what year, but the smartcraft was not available on the mechanical blue diamonds. It was only available with the 480CE and newer motors. I think that wasn't available in the 420DA till late '04 or early '05.
     
  7. Robski97

    Robski97 Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    Skip , Frank I respect both of u guys very much. The hard top and bow thruster u know im going to disagree with. I wouldnt trade either option. Also cockpit a/c is a big plus but not so much for the a/c as its way undersized but for the heat. The a/c's a joke.

    Other then that this boat is bullet proof with with cummns motors.


    Rob
     
  8. Sprint27c

    Sprint27c Member

    40
    Jan 26, 2008
    Clyde, Ohio
    Ditto that Rob. I find the bow thruster, while not necessary for general maneuvering, really works nice to keep the boat off the docks or posts. In our case, we're in a very tight, stern first slip, up against a high seawall. The wheels do a fine job of getting us turned, but on the way back into the slip its nice to be able to blip the thruster to keep the nose straight and the rails off the posts.

    I was on a very nice, new 68' Hatteras (without thrusters believe it or not) down in Mexico last week and the captain had a slip very much like ours at home...he spun it around and just laid the starboard side up against the wood tie-off post and backed in; sliding hard against the post the whole way. Thats rough on the rails and a bow thruster would have kept that from happening.

    In any case, last year was our first for this boat and we absolutely loved it. We had no problems and very few complaints. It is a lot of boat to keep clean but it pays you back with tons of room and great performance. I'd like to see the main cabin a/c compressor a little more quiet and that's about it. The hard top is a great option to have also.

    FYI we paid a local dealer $380k for a like-new 2005 w/180 hours. We don't even have bigger-boat-itis yet mainly because with anything larger than a 45 - dock space starts to get challenging in our part of Lake Erie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2008
  9. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Rob,

    It seems like we've been here before!..Skip says the hardtop and thruster aren't necessary; I say they add a lot of cost but very little value in enhanced useability. We didn't say they were nice to have. You guys love your boats and that is great. If the buyer has an extra $75-$100K to spend then I say go for both options......but you don't NEED either to enjoy a 420/44DA.
     
  10. Robski97

    Robski97 Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    Hey we can agree to disagree... I was sick of the mold and the rattles of the canvas.

    Shawn , I replaced my cabin a/c unit with a 16,000 btu machine . On hot summer days and the kids in and out I wasnt happy... U can cover that entire unit in foam if u wish....
    ( or any other sound absorbing material . ) just dont impede air flow to the return ( where the filter is .

    Rob
     
  11. Water U Lookin' At

    Water U Lookin' At Member

    71
    Jan 2, 2007
    Washington, DC
    300 Sundancer 2002
    5.0 MPI, Bravo III Drives
    All,

    Thanks for the replies! I'm looking from 2004 to 2007 models. One of the items I mentioned was cosmetic (hardtop), but all of the items are features that I think would help the saleability of the boat in the future.

    I just wanted to make sure that there were no show stoppers in terms of reliability or quality with this model before looking into making some bids.

    I appreciate the synchronizer and A/C suggestions. Although he's in California. So, the A/C might be enough for their climate.

    I guess it's just a matter of getting a good price now. I'm trying to get my buddy a ~200 hour boat for the mid $200K - low $300K region. Wish me luck.

    Eddie
     
  12. Robski97

    Robski97 Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    Ed,
    Ur going to need more then luck for that one .....


    Rob
     
  13. Carver370

    Carver370 Active Member

    Mar 30, 2007
    New Buffalo Michigan
    1994 Carver 370 Motoryacht
    Twin Crusader 454 - 350 HP Each.
    We just sold an 04 420 with Blue hull, Hardtop, and bow thruster for $325,000. The boat had 250 hours on it and was PERFECT. Low 300s is not out of the question.
     
  14. ezwoo

    ezwoo New Member

    92
    Dec 22, 2007
    Seattle
    2004 390 Sundancer
    2006 44 Sedan Bridge
    8.1 mercs
    QSC 500's
    Another factor on the hard top issue is that it is my understanding that all of the new Sundancers will have hard tops. Most of the express cruisers like Cruisers Inc. are promoting hard tops too. They add a lot of style to these boats and may just tend to make boats without hard tops look more
    "dated" than they really are. Besides some of the benefits already mentioned, the hard top may add a lot of value come re-sale time, which, as we all know, is when you find out what it really cost to own that boat (which is one of the reasons we buy Sea Rays!). Now I will duck and run.
     
  15. sbw1

    sbw1 Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    West Michigan
    This is listed in my signature
    This is listed in my signature
    Even if the a/c is a little on the weak side, the hardtop makes the helm more comfortable on high temp, sunny days. You can feel the heat radiating through Sunbrella for a good 8-12" beneath the canvas. With the hardtop, you feel little or no radiated heat and the helm air, if it's strong enough, turns the helm into another comfortable, big space to hang out in bad (hot or cold) weather. It's worth every penny, particularly in the spring and fall up north.
     
  16. Sprint27c

    Sprint27c Member

    40
    Jan 26, 2008
    Clyde, Ohio
    Agree with that...we paid $380 for an '05 w/ 150 hrs. --- granted it was a loaded model. (Hard top, thruster, colored hull, etc)
     
  17. bluebelly

    bluebelly New Member

    380
    Aug 15, 2007
    GEORGIA
    340 SUNDANCER
    ?
    A year ago this month I was able to make a deal on a 2005 420 with hardtop, thruster, cockpit ac, and raymarine radar and twin e series displays for $340000. The boat was in Miami and checked out like new, it had 100 hours on it. I also was able to price a couple of 04's with hardtop for under $290000 with all the right equipment. All these prices came from a broker who had taken these boats in on trade. The best pricing seems to come from a boat broker who has "traded"-in a boat to sell one of his "listed" boats. These trade-ins are usually paid for with his own money and not under floor plan. This means that he will want to turn the boat for a quick sale within 30 days. I suppose today's pricing would be even better with the economy like it is.

    Good Luck













    4
     
  18. Hampton

    Hampton Air Defense Dept TECHNICAL Contributor

    Nov 26, 2006
    Panama City, Fl
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSC-500's
    Straight Drives
    Is that C&S Marine?
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al New Member

    293
    Oct 13, 2006
    Canada
    370 Sundancer
    Twin 454 Mercruiser
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke genny
    In my mind, any solution to replace canvas is good....If I was in the market to get a boat like (and in the price range of) a recent 420/44 , a hardtop would be on my option list.

    BTW, I really like the 04-07 420/44 DAs. Very nice boats.
     

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