420 DA Thread

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Skip, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. Windjammer

    Windjammer Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    451
    Nov 10, 2007
    Marietta, GA
    340 Sundancer 2006
    8.1 Mercruiser V-Drives
    I've got my eye on a 2003 420DA that's about 3 hours away from me. It's on it's 3rd owner, and started out as a freshwater boat except for a couple of years in Florida. It has the Cummings 6CTA 8.3 engines (1100 hrs) and an Onan genset (1300 hrs). As a complete neophyte to diesels, are there any "tell-tale" signs I should look for on a first look-see visit. Naturally if the stars align correctly, a full engine survey would be a must. I have asked about things like if A/C units have been replaced, refrigerators replaced, and when (and who) has serviced the engines/genset? Any other things I need to put on my list of things to check? About the only things I've gotten from the broker is it had a bottom job done last year, and "it shows real well."
     
    Chris-380 likes this.
  2. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    Seawater pumps if they are original.. they have the potential of losing seals and leaking oil... Replace with these https://www.sbmar.com/product/smx-1730-seawater-pump/
    Heat exchanger and after cooler serviced recently

    When I bought mine I had Cummins Do the engine survey... Do the oil samples thru them.... A lot of time the mechanic has a service history on the engines...

    Good luck
     
  3. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    693
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    What Blueone said. The raw water side is the achilles heel, so to speak of these engines. As long as proper maintenance is performed, no problem. BUT, you need proof of said work. When I bought my boat, as a condition of sale, we pulled both aftercoolers and heatexchangers. Glad I did as the Port aftercooler was fused. $3,400 in parts later! If you go this far, you may as well change the gear oil coolers too. When the aftercooler is off, they are right there.

    If there are any signs of leakage around the raw water pumps, change them!

    Be sure to check ALL of the floor hatches. Especially the small one in the aft cabin. Look for water! If the grey water sump is all scuzzed up, it will give you a general idea of how the boat was maintained, in my opinion. Not a deal killer, but it would indicate that you need to be more thorough.

    Jaybeaux
     
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  4. villain style

    villain style Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 10, 2006
    Mears Point Marina Kent Island, MD
    2006 44 DA
    QSC 8.3s
    Cummins QSC 8.3s 500HO
    As Blueone said above. The engines should have had 1,000Hr service done. Ask to see those receipts. If not done, plan to have it done. "The bottom was just done last year and it shows real well" is not enough information one way or another. Get your questions addressed as well as the maint records from the Broker.
     
    Windjammer likes this.
  5. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    501
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2007 Sundancer 44
    Cummins QSC 8.3
    On your first look at the engines you want to look for three things:

    1) cleanliness - are there oil or coolant streaks running down sides of engine? If yes there is at a minimum a lack of attention to the engines, at works you have seal leaks or blowby.
    2) rust/paint - is there a lot of rust, or conversely if there is no rust does it look like someone just spray bombed the engines to cover the rust
    3) are the turbos a light tan color or dark brown - turbos generate a lot of heat, as a result they will often turn white paint to a nice light tan color - totally normal. If a turbo or even worse an aftercooler is dark tan or brown its a very good sign the engines were run hard for long periods of time.

    all the other things mentioned before are important as well, but those are more questions for the owner and/or surveyor. The items above are easy to spot and will take 3-5 minutes per engine to get an overview.


    Its been a while since I was on the market for my 42/44 but my memory says the hard top was an option on the 420 in 2003. IMHO, the hardtop is well worth the extra money to get it!
     
    Buyajet, Jaybeaux, Windjammer and 2 others like this.
  6. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    Here is an idea of the turbo color to look for... also cleanliness... and if you look really close.. Hug marks :)... you will love those engines

    Engine Strbd.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    Windjammer likes this.
  7. brewster16

    brewster16 Active Member

    424
    Aug 9, 2009
    Long Beach Island, N.J.
    '07 44 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins QSC 8.3
    I agree about cleanliness and receipts. To me those are the first things I'm using to decide if we're moving forward with any particular boat... a diligent previous owner ought to have an organized set of receipts for any and all services and parts. Annual/regular: oil changes, exterior and pencil zinc receipts, bottom paint, fuel filters, winterization products/services, serpentine belts, impellers etc. etc. If not just remember there will ALWAYS be another boat to consider.

    I remember when I bought my boat about 6 years ago the previous owner had all of the above for me to see. Also, the boat and engine room were very clean. These made my decision to spend money on an engine and hull survey easy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  8. Blue Chip

    Blue Chip Member SILVER Sponsor

    48
    May 9, 2019
    New Smyrna Beach, FL
    2003 Sea Ray Sundancer 420
    "Day Five"
    6CTA 8.3M 3
    I also have an 03 with the same power setup. Agree with the sentiments above. I'm still felling my way though - but so far I love the boat!
     
  9. BubbaFrsh

    BubbaFrsh Member GOLD Sponsor

    51
    Aug 22, 2009
    Tampa, Florida
    "SeaExec II"
    2005 420 Sundancer
    480 CE
    Cold beer is served once again..

    The original inside fridge was not cooling so I had my guy come out and take a look. The fan and AC converter on the fridge were not working properly. We replaced both. He had an upgraded module that was the controller and AC converter combined for just another $100 more($350 total for the part). All in all three hours labor and parts, $750ish and we have cold beer once again. I attached a couple pics so you know what too look for if you are a DIY type. The pics are of the setup and then the replaced fan and controller. I didn't get a chance to snap pics of the new setup.

    After hearing the story about the fragile cooling lines, I chickened out on DIY aspect.

    From what I gathered these are dc fridges that have an AC converter. IMG_2001 (1).jpg IMG_2003.jpg IMG_2011.jpg IMG_2013 (1).jpg IMG_2018.jpg IMG_2019.jpg IMG_2020.jpg IMG_2021.jpg IMG_20251.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  10. brewster16

    brewster16 Active Member

    424
    Aug 9, 2009
    Long Beach Island, N.J.
    '07 44 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins QSC 8.3
    I'm kinda curious about people's thoughts on occasionally using barnacle buster through the raw water side of our engines??? Obviously not as a replacement for the recommended aftercooler and raw water tear down. Thoughts? Pros and cons??
     
  11. brewster16

    brewster16 Active Member

    424
    Aug 9, 2009
    Long Beach Island, N.J.
    '07 44 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins QSC 8.3
    So, this question came to mind as I was recently viewing Sea Flush you tube videos on engine winterization techniques. One of their videos was about use of Barnacle Buster with their Sea Flush product which I happen to own.
     
  12. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    Was curious about this myself. Dockmate has a 400 DB with Cats and says he uses it every other year.
     
  13. swaterhouse

    swaterhouse Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    501
    Jan 7, 2015
    Mattapoisett, MA
    2007 Sundancer 44
    Cummins QSC 8.3
    It wont hurt, but not sure it will help either unless when you open them up after 2 (or 3) years they have a lot of internal clogging.

    The issue with these aftercoolers is less about the clogging and more about the interaction of the different metals, which is why tony calls for splitting them and lubricating the surfaces.
     
  14. craigswardmtb

    craigswardmtb Active Member

    143
    Jul 2, 2013
    Mystic, CT
    2004 420 DB
    2005 360 Fiesta Vee
    Cummins 6CTA
    The PO apparently used Barnacle buster every season. I plan to take the aftercoolers off in a month or so and rod out the heat exchangers. The coolers haven't been off in 5 years so we shall see how well BB worked. I'll update the thread with my observations when complete. Personally i don't plan to use BB, but also don't think its bad for the engines if used as directed. Some people claim its bad for the gaskets, but who knows how much credence is in that. I would rather take it apart and clean it properly every other year and fresh water flush throughout the season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
    Chris-380 and villain style like this.
  15. villain style

    villain style Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 10, 2006
    Mears Point Marina Kent Island, MD
    2006 44 DA
    QSC 8.3s
    Cummins QSC 8.3s 500HO
    Keep us posted when you complete!! Thanks
     
  16. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    I guess my real question would be if it allows you to go longer on the heat ex changers? I understand having to remove the aftercoolers at the recommended intervals for servicing but does this also applies to the heat ex changers and oil coolers as well if you flush them annually?
     
  17. Robski97

    Robski97 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    I haven't touched the oil/gear coolers til this year. Cummins dealer said it was time to replace them. Simply based on years . engine have 1200 hrs . only saw a 5 degree temp drop... Also my engine impellers were 4 yrs old ... they came out pristine looking as did the previous set that again were 4 years old . Just my 2 cents.

    Rob
     
    villain style likes this.
  18. Blueone

    Blueone Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jan 24, 2007
    Lake Erie, Ohio
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    I started investigating putting a dinghy on the swim platform. I don't have a hydraulic lift, so I am looking at a Hurley H30. I am starting to second guess the size of the dinghy. I want 10'-2" x 5'-8" but starting to think it might be too big or not look right.
    Can any of you tell me what size you have and any pictures of the stern with the dingy on the davit would be appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  19. brewster16

    brewster16 Active Member

    424
    Aug 9, 2009
    Long Beach Island, N.J.
    '07 44 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins QSC 8.3
    I travel with an 8’6 Mercury with a 5 hp engine attached. I have the first generation Hurley davit. Perfect set up for my family of four.
     
    JVM225 and Blueone like this.
  20. brewster16

    brewster16 Active Member

    424
    Aug 9, 2009
    Long Beach Island, N.J.
    '07 44 Sundancer
    Twin Cummins QSC 8.3
    Couple of pics...
     

    Attached Files:

    Woody and Blueone like this.

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