420 DA Thread

SHOWER SUMP / GREY WATER REPAIR

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After taking the boat to Catalina Island over Memorial Day weekend with my son & four of his friends I used the shower in the boat. I noticed the drain was a little slow draining, and later lifted the floor hatch and noticed the shower sump box was full (overflowing to the bilge) with nasty shower water and the pump was not going on.

Here are my steps to diagnosing / repairing:

1) Removed the wing nuts / cover from the sump box.

2) Manually emptied the nasty shower water.

3) Tried to manually activate the float switch to no effect.

4) Checked the wiring bundle (pictured at bottom of the screen) and one of the wires came loose from the butt connectors (where two wires joined in with one wire).

5) I temporarily stuck the wire back in and tried again to manually activate the float switch and it still didn't work.

6) I bypassed the float switch and the pump came on right away and started pumping out water.

7) I turned off the "Sump Pump #1" breaker at the DC Breaker Panel

8) I cut all the positive wires away from the pump and float switch and removed the float switch from the box (it had come loose anyway and had kind of been floating around in the shower water).

9) I checked the float switch with a multimeter and still when manually activating the switch there still was no connection.

10) Went to West Marine and bought a replacement float switch (same model and size as the old one). I also bought new heat shrink butt connectors, including a step down butt connector for where two wires joined with a single wire.

11) Tested the new float switch with the multimeter and confirmed when activated that the float switch closed the connection.

12) Installed the float switch into the sump box. NOTE: The screw holes in the sump box were slightly too close together to attach screws at both ends of the float switch. This was probably why the old switch eventually came loose. I tightened the screw on the side of the switch where the wiring comes out of the float switch as much as possible, and left the other side unbolted.

12) There were three wires coming from the boat wiring to the sump box: 1) Black 2) Brown 3) Brown w/ Orange Stripe.

13) I consulted Section 6 of the Sea Ray Owners manual - DC Wiring Schematic 6.29.1 and confirmed:
Black: Ground (323-14) -> To Ground
Brown: (324-16) -> To SeaRay Systems Monitor
Brown/Orange: (322-14) -> To Sump Pump #1 Breaker on Engine Room DC Panel (Note Sump Pump #2 Breaker on panel is not in use according to wiring diagram.)

14) Rewired into three butt connectors:
Negative from pump -> Black Ground (323-14)
Positive from pump -> Float switch wire #1 + Brown/SeaRay Systems Monitor Wire (Using step down butt connector)
Float switch wire #2 -> Brown/Orange (322-14) wire going to breaker panel.

15) Turned back on breaker and confirmed the pump now activated when I filled up the grey water box.

16) Used a heat source to shrink down the covering on all the butt connectors.

17) Used zip ties to secure the wiring bundle.

QUESTIONS FOR CSR:
- Any recommendations for cleaning out the grey water sump box?
- Any body else run into a problem where the float switch doesn't match the holes in the sump box? If so what did you do?
Great writeup! That will help many people. Thanks for the time you took to write it up.

I'm with JVM on body wash being better than hard soap. I clean my sump monthly - activate the manual switch on the float to drain it as much as possible, then shop vac it out, use my bilge FW hose to flush it out, then repeat steps 1 and 2. Lastly, I add a "black water/grey water pellet" that I get at WM when I buy the marine TP...I'll look at the name - Its cheaper than the "gold plated" No Flex Digestor that I use in the toilets...Also, your wing nuts make for easy access; my '58 came with an inspection cover that just requires a twist of the handle and it opens up. Really makes the monthly maint easy.
 
The whole sump box being used as a collector that eventually dumps out of the boat is a horrible design. All of us have had to clean, maintain the sumps, pumps, and lines. I am going to tackle just pumping all drains leading in to just directly pump it out of the closest through hulls. I can’t stand cleaning that thing. Has anyone bypassed it??

The one positive function that the sump performs is to separate the soap bubbles from the liquid. It provides the residence time. That way you don't have plume of white frothy gunk floating on the water, leading back to your boat.

Jaybeaux
 
The one positive function that the sump performs is to separate the soap bubbles from the liquid. It provides the residence time. That way you don't have plume of white frothy gunk floating on the water, leading back to your boat.

Jaybeaux
Yes it would do that. I just ordered this that JVM 225 uses:
BoatersMate Zaal Noflex Digestor Sewage Treatment Odor & Sludge Eliminator on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C7HRV4P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I read a bunch about it after hearing it here and it seems it is a great treatment for not just what you can get hands on but your lines too-to remove the "sludge". Hope it makes the whole sump box thing better. Worth a try.

How do you like Smoove? I started using their boat wash and I am impressed. Hardly any water spots.
 
My sump box looked like yours when I got boat a year ago. My float switch was not working also. I did exactly as you performed and bought a new float switch but I mounted it on the lower level next to pump. I'd rather have it activate the pump often than wait for the water to rise to the upper level. So far so good.
 
I'd rather have it activate the pump often than wait for the water to rise to the upper level. So far so good.

Not to mention when mounted in the higher position you will always have a pool of nasty water sitting in the lower section getting moldy. It's disgusting.

Didn't realize that body wash has less residue than soap.
 
JVM - this is what I use in the shower sump:

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I use it for grey water; No Flex Digestor for the Holding Tank...
 
What, if anything, can we add to the holding tanks? While I get ours pumped probably once per month, is there anything we can add to break down waste even more?
 
I will. I have a guess that it’s coming from a line “south” or below the main water manifold. I took a mirror and scoped it and saw wetness on the lower floor area but no obvious leaks. When I get it figured I’ll post or it might remain a mystery. Thanks
I just discovered the same issue others have posted on this thread......water in the aft salon small floor locker. I regularly check salon sub floor areas, since I had same issue with my 2005 390. The 2006 44DA is new to us as of last fall. My inspections have not revealed any water.....until yesterday. I had to tell my wife since she had recently stored six bottles of wine in there! There wasn't much water, but enough to wet the bottom of a cardboard box. After drying the area, I poked my head in and looked around, but could not identify any source. Hoping for help from others with this mystery......very perplexing. I don't think the issue is due to overfilling fresh water tank, since the most recent fill was done a week before the wine was stored. Thanks.
 
What, if anything, can we add to the holding tanks? While I get ours pumped probably once per month, is there anything we can add to break down waste even more?
Many of us have had good success with "No Flex Digestor". Its available on Amazon, but I get mine at Marine Sanitation (marinesan.com - I think). IF you buy a couple of them you can get a discount and free shipping. There is also a bowl cleaner available there that is compatible with the No Flex...They have a lot of parts for our Vacuflush Systems.
 
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I have gone through this. See previous posts :) and I still had water here. Not all of the time, but sometimes. Enough to piss me off. My salon A/C gave up about 2 weeks ago and when the tech pulled it, he found a "burnt" through plastic insulated small white colored elbow hose that is used to make a turn as it leaves the unit. It had a small hole (3 pinhead size) that was literally burnt through and it was rubbing against the hot compressor area, leaking and allowing water to find its lowest level. Optically, you could not see below this hose so there was no indicator that area was "wet". Changed this out of course, and we have put 20 hours on the boat since using all "stuff". Now no water, nothing in this hole. It's bone dry. He thinks it was one of two sources (water tank overflow to thru hull was the first culprit). The weird thing is that when you look inside, there is no obvious way for water to get in there. I used a mirror to try to chase this and could not see an obvious "input" spot other than the folds in fiberglass and whatever that SR built to form the upper area (ceiling?) of this spot. Weird!
Hope this helps someone.
I still keep a stay dry pad in there with hopes this issue that so many of us have had never returns.
 
I have gone through this. See previous posts :) and I still had water here. Not all of the time, but sometimes. Enough to piss me off. My salon A/C gave up about 2 weeks ago and when the tech pulled it, he found a "burnt" through plastic insulated small white colored elbow hose that is used to make a turn as it leaves the unit. It had a small hole (3 pinhead size) that was literally burnt through and it was rubbing against the hot compressor area, leaking and allowing water to find its lowest level. Optically, you could not see below this hose so there was no indicator that area was "wet". Changed this out of course, and we have put 20 hours on the boat since using all "stuff". Now no water, nothing in this hole. It's bone dry. He thinks it was one of two sources (water tank overflow to thru hull was the first culprit). The weird thing is that when you look inside, there is no obvious way for water to get in there. I used a mirror to try to chase this and could not see an obvious "input" spot other than the folds in fiberglass and whatever that SR built to form the upper area (ceiling?) of this spot. Weird!
Hope this helps someone.
I still keep a stay dry pad in there with hopes this issue that so many of us have had never returns.
Buyajet - Thanks. Quite helpful. I think this will be one of those things that will require regular and diligent oversight. There appears to be no smoking gun for the cause! Since many have experienced the issue, please post if you have more suggestions. Thanks again. Always annoying when water does not stay on the outside of the boat!!
 
Two years ago it happened to me once... Nothing last year... I leave a paper towel down there laying flat and we keep the vacuum hose and attachments down there and use them once a week....nothing... This past weekend I was filling the fresh water tank and I forgot all about it and it over flowed for a half hour...I checked to see and no water down there.... So I am like you I don't think it's the tank or vent
Blueone - thanks for the information. I don't think I'll store wine or other fine items down there!
 
Buyajet - Thanks. Quite helpful. I think this will be one of those things that will require regular and diligent oversight. There appears to be no smoking gun for the cause! Since many have experienced the issue, please post if you have more suggestions. Thanks again. Always annoying when water does not stay on the outside of the boat!!

My pleasure.
 
So I've been doing a bunch of cleaning these past two days. Cleaning, and taking inventory of all of the stuff on board. So here's the question: What do you 420 owners stow under the rear cockpit seats? My PO was kind enough to put that dry deck system under there. It even makes the curve in the aft starboard corner. There's a ton of space under there, but it is sort of a pain in the a$$ to get to. What do y'all store under there? I've already thought about extra beer, water, and beer.

Jaybeaux
 
So I've been doing a bunch of cleaning these past two days. Cleaning, and taking inventory of all of the stuff on board. So here's the question: What do you 420 owners stow under the rear cockpit seats? My PO was kind enough to put that dry deck system under there. It even makes the curve in the aft starboard corner. There's a ton of space under there, but it is sort of a pain in the a$$ to get to. What do y'all store under there? I've already thought about extra beer, water, and beer.

Jaybeaux
I store my Magna grill, two small bumpers, 4 saddle floats, a two person inflatable dingy and oars, an electric inflator, and two mesh style rafts. I have the same dry deck so I can hose the cockpit down and the water goes through the spot without getting everything wet. Serves a good purpose for us.
 
I store my Magna grill, two small bumpers, 4 saddle floats, a two person inflatable dingy and oars, an electric inflator, and two mesh style rafts. I have the same dry deck so I can hose the cockpit down and the water goes through the spot without getting everything wet. Serves a good purpose for us.
I have a couple of saddle floats on the bottom and put the aft canvas on top... Where do you store your canvas?
 
I have a couple of saddle floats on the bottom and put the aft canvas on top... Where do you store your canvas?
I don’t want the canvas (in a bag) to get wet so I either put it in the aft salon floor against the pullout couch/ bed wall or I throw it on the 46’ Hatteras that never leaves the dock next to me. It hasn’t moved in 10 months
 
I think all the U aft seating storage sucks... Behind the helm I have a couple of noodles in that skinny space ... I never use the noodles but feel better I am using the space. The corners I keep the keyhole life jackets and the aft access hole is crazy small... So I just roll up the aft 3 pieces and throw them in there.
I have four big bumpers that store 2 a side in the anchor locker up front. The trunk I keep a BBQ... Cords, hoses, bucket and a couple of board fenders... So there is a lot of room to move stuff around.
I don't have a problem removing my aft bench seat as my table is small..so no issue there
 

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